When suicide becomes reasonable.

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by anonymous4891xxx, Aug 17, 2012.

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  1. anonymous4891xxx

    anonymous4891xxx New Member

    I have noticed that websites that give advice on suicide state that it is a permanate solution to a temporary problem. However what if the problem isnt temporary. Yeah, I understand I can do whatever I want during my life but it everything seems pointless. I spend my days indulging in things such as expensive food just to let the time go by. Im still here because I do have some things I must accomplish first but it becomes hard to even care about those things. I dont relate to people who have typical depression. I see people who cry all the time and I think they must feel even worse, yet at the same time I see them able to enjoy things as well. Nothing makes me cry. I actually dont understand why most people have physical reactions to what their thinking. Maybe Im just a misanthropic nihalist Ive wondered. I just find it hard to care about much of anything anymore. The humans Im stuck on this miserable planet disgust me too. I am disgusted by their weakness most of all. I find mental illness treatment to be inept as well. I have been on over 10 differant meds, and while they help me function, I dont feel any happier overall. Currently Im on 4 various psychotropic medications. I often contemplate stopping them again. I dont function so well without them but without them I seem to feel nothing at all. I become nobody. I find councilling pointless as well. If anything it has made me even feel more negative. Anyways Ive gone through the various advice throughout my life and none of it has really helped much. I didnt really have a bad life or childhood either other than I just couldnt find enjoyment in what I was given. Some people are just naturally unable to be happy. Nobody asks to be brought into this world so why must we be pressured to stay here.
  2. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    I don't really have a whole lot of advice here because I can kind of relate to how you feel, but at the same time, I do still care, and cry, and have feelings and interests. I kind of go back and forth on that stuff actually... some days I feel like you, other days I feel like those people who cry all the time yet I'm still able to somewhat enjoy things. The one thing I would say is that when I was on antidepressants, I felt pretty damn numb to everything... I'm not sure how much that is contributing to your current state of mind, but it's something to take into consideration. I'm not going to lie, there have been times in my life where suicide just seemed like the most logical choice... definitely seemed more like a permanent solution to what has been at the very least a very long term problem, not so much a temporary one. A 'temporary' problem would be, oh, I lost my job... I broke up with my significant other... etc. I've got a lot more problems than that. But at the same time, I can see things in life that seem like they would be worth living for... are you absolutely sure that you don't care about anything? Is it possible that you just haven't found what you care about yet? It's a big world... I'm sure none of us knows about everything under the sun. This is what I keep trying to tell myself when I start to believe things like, I don't have a soul mate... how do I know? Have I met everybody? No, of course not. In fact, I haven't met very many people at all. I've largely held myself back from meeting people and getting out and doing things... just watching life pass me by. I can't remember ever feeling true happiness, but I still believe it is possible, I just have to find the life that I've been missing. Yes, I do have days where everything seems pointless, but that's usually because I've given up. Sometimes these feelings can be unknowingly self inflicted.

    I'm not sure if any of what I'm saying helps... we're all different, we all have different issues and different mindsets... I don't claim to understand how everybody feels. And maybe there aren't solutions to everyone's problems. I just think it's important to at least try to challenge that belief that suicide is the best choice and to explore every other option first, because once you make that choice and take your own life, it cannot be undone. One of the lessons life has taught me is - don't do something that you can't undo; I almost always end up regretting it later. Not that you can regret suicide because well, you're dead, but it's still the same principle. You never know what you could be missing out on. And yeah, I know you're probably thinking that you won't miss anything about this world, and maybe in your current state of mind that's true... but even states of mind can change. I'm just saying, give it some more thought first. If what you've been doing hasn't helped, try something different. From a purely logical standpoint, doesn't it make more sense to try every other possible alternative before resorting to suicide? Suicide can only be considered 'reasonable' if it is absolutely impossible to improve your situation. And that is almost never the case. The most logical thing that any living being can do is to try to survive and to improve its own existence. I understand the purpose of suicide to alleviate suffering, believe me... but if there is any other way to make things better, it makes more sense to try those first.

    I'm not trying to pressure you... just kind of throwing that idea out there. It's one of the thoughts that has prevented me from committing suicide, because we only have this one existence as far as we know... might as well take advantage of that and try to make the best of it if possible.
  3. pickwithaustin

    pickwithaustin Staff Alumni

    There are unfortunately two very glaringly major flaws with your thinking on this topic. First, you ask "what if it is not temporary." Well honestly and logically, you cannot really ask that if you have not yet reached your full age of maturity (senior citizen). How do you know how you will feel in 2, 3, 8, 10, or even more years?

    Secondly, you say you are disgusted by people's weakness... yet you are considering self destructive suicide.

    I totally understand you are feeling down and I do support your quest for answers... but you need to rethink your analysis.
  4. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    I was also going to say something along those lines but I didn't want it to come across as insulting... pain and suffering is in fact a sign of weakness. And there's nothing wrong with that... EVERYBODY is weak. If you're human, if you're mortal, if you bleed and hurt physically and emotionally, then you're weak. Weak and fleshy and flawed, like everybody else.

    Also... if you truly felt completely numb, what would be the purpose of suicide? You're not suffering... you don't care about anything... you feel like a robot... robots don't destroy themselves, because they have no reason to, because they have no feelings and don't give a shit. You obviously do give a shit and do feel something, otherwise you would not feel a need to die. You are human, and humans are weak, humans make mistakes, humans aren't machines - most humans succumb to emotions and flawed logic from time to time. And also... humans, unlike machines, can grow and change and adapt to their situation. Perhaps it's a bit unreasonable to think otherwise, yes? A little too soon to be throwing in the towel, in my opinion.
  5. Noatak

    Noatak Member

    I don't think I've ever heard something so ridiculous in my life.
  6. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    Oh? So I suppose you're immortal? Or wait... let me guess, you're strong, and that's why you're on a suicide forum, right?

    Every living creature on this planet is flawed, mortal, weak and fallible. We all suffer and we all die. Our lives are over in the blink of an eye. Every thought you've ever thought, every word you've ever said is ridiculous, because your existence is completely and utterly meaningless. Just like mine and everybody else's.

    Did you come here for support, or just to criticize something I said?
  7. Noatak

    Noatak Member

    Calling someone 'weak' is helping absolutely no one. You think everyone on this forum is weak? Well I don't think so anyway.

    I came for support and to help others, and I just don't feel that everyone's weak as you so claim.
  8. AlienBeing

    AlienBeing Well-Known Member

    I can relate to this post almost in its entirety. I'm almost 49 and have been in a state of treatment resistant depression forever. This is not a temporary problem. Yes, everything seems pointless to me too. I spend my days doing nothing of any value to anyone or myself. I'm still here because I'm waiting for my fatally ill Mom to die so she won't have to suffer my suicide. I don't relate to most people in general, unless they're really smart and really depressed and suicidal. I saw people getting experimental treatment for treatment resistant depression along with me who seemed to be less depressed than me. I do cry sometimes but wish that I didn't. I hate crying. I'm probably also a misanthropic nihilist and also find it hard to care much about anything anymore. I've been thinking that I would just like to lie in bed until I die. I wonder how long it would take to die from that. I've heard a sedentary lifestyle is as bad as smoking a pack a day. Never getting up is probably even worse than that. People don't really disgust me. They mostly just don't interest me much. I've been on as many meds too. I'm about to try my 11th antidepressant. I contemplate giving up on psychiatric treatment as well. I've tried literally everything it has to offer, even Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation and Magnetic Seizure Therapy. I just keep getting intolerable side effects or they don't work. I'm even contemplating trying magic mushrooms as they are the new experimental therapy for depression. I don't want to get high or hallucinate. I just want the depression to cease. It's my only motive. I'm not a drug user, just desperate to try anything that might work. My therapist also seems completely useless and pointless these days. I also didn't have a really terrible childhood. It could have been much worse for sure. I've just never been able to be happy. I got bullied a lot I guess and hence became a people hating nihilist who isn't much liked by others either. I guess I feel pressured to stay until my mom is gone but it won't be long now. My biggest problem with getting out is my generally anxious, fearful nature because it makes it difficult for me to do what I need to do to end it all. The way I see it though is if you had read 2/3 of a novel and it mostly sucked, why would you bother to read the rest of it? Do I really expect it to improve any after all this time? What are the odds that it's going to suddenly turn into a great story, or even a readable one? And why did I even read this far in the first place? There's never going to be any "love interest". I can't even care about that anymore. There will be no car chases. I don't have a car. There will probably not even be any great tragedy to keep my interest other than that of a completely wasted life, lying in a low rent apartment periodically being eaten alive by bedbugs and trying desperately to keep the roaches out. It's just a sad, wasted existence. A few kind doctors and support workers try to comfort and help me to no avail. They send me to meetings with other equally screwed up people to do arts and crafts and work on my "recovery". I have a science degree and an IQ of 150 and this is what I've been reduced to because of incurable depression. Please just shoot me now.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2012
  9. Butterfly

    Butterfly Sim Addict Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    I think it's very wrong and unsupportive to say that all human beings are "weak" and that everyone's "existance is utterly meaningless". Most people who visit this forum have an awful lot of crap to deal with and are very strong people. People who achieve what they want to achieve are very strong people. And everybody can find a purpose in life if they look hard enough for it.

    Back to the OP, do you find your depression to be situational? Often medications and therapy won't work for a situational depression. Often the best thing to do is get yourself out of that situation and start a fresh. It is difficult and takes a lot of strength and courage, but it can be done.
  10. AlienBeing

    AlienBeing Well-Known Member

    I think it's very wrong and unsupportive to criticize how other people see the world, even if you don't agree with it. I think Lone Wolf is very depressed and that's his/her? point of view on things. Butterfly does not sound as depressed as Lone Wolf but that doesn't make him/her right, just because it's more positive. Positivity is not always right. I don't believe that everyone can find a purpose if they just look hard enough. Live in an apartment building for mentally ill people for 5 years and then come back and tell me that. This place is full of desperate people who will probably never find any meaning or purpose in life.

    You might have a point that people who deal with a lot of crap might be very strong. I can see that. But then if they got mentally ill from all the crap that's weakness. And what choice do they have but to try to deal with all the crap and the resulting illnesses other than to check out with drugs, alcohol or suicide? And maybe if they had been stronger in the first place they would have overcome their problems instead of getting sick from them--people do that sometimes. I wish I could have done that. So yeah, I suppose not everyone is weak. Some people are strong--just not the ones who have gotten suicidally depressed over their problems.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2012
  11. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    You obviously all completely missed my point.

    All life on this planet is weak and fleshy and mortal. We're fragile creatures. Mother nature can wipe us all off the planet in a flash.

    <not responding to original post- mod edit>
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2012
  12. pickwithaustin

    pickwithaustin Staff Alumni

    I actually understood what you were saying. I think everyone is taking what you said to direct literally. I did not view it as you calling anyone "weak" or in being overly negative. On the whole, mankind (human beings) is a frail being that is susceptible to many challenges ranging from mental to physical diseases, cultural differences, relationship woes, genetic dis-positioning, love, hate, emotions, feeling... We all fight every day for survival in one way or another. Perhaps the challenges today are not the in the same ways as our primitive ancestors who had to hunt for food and clothing fur faced, but in many ways our struggles are not much different in the overall concept of survival. In fact, I would venture to say that with education, technology, and other advancements... our challenges are far greater than they ever were before.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2012
  13. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    Well at least somebody understands me. I wasn't suggesting that people who suffer from depression are weak, for crying out loud. I am here because I am suicidal, because I am tired of the pain, because I am tired of feeling lonely and misunderstood. I am a "strong" person... physically, mentally, and even emotionally. I have survived more shit than many of you could ever imagine. Yet in spite of my strengths, I am weak... I die just as easily as anyone else here. That was my whole point - that our lives are fragile, our very existence is a miracle. There are a million things in this world that can kill us, including ourselves. And ultimately we will all die no matter what we do. It's what we do while we're still here that matters. "Being brave is not the absence of fear, but rather the strength to keep going forward in spite of it." Fear and weakness are HUMAN TRAITS. If you don't feel fear, if you feel invincible, then you are NOT HUMAN. You may very well be a sociopath.

    But who gives a fuck what I think? I'm just an idiot, right? Thanks again for the "support", guys.

    Unfortunately this forum no longer makes me feel better. It makes me feel worse. Including those so-called "helpful" people who seem interested in helping everybody but me.

    You all want to judge me? You all think you're better than me? Fine. Maybe you're right. Hell, you must be, since I'm obviously outnumbered. Might makes right, right? I'm used to being in the minority. I'm used to being alone... shunned... neglected... despised. Thanks guys, for reinforcing every negative belief I've ever had about myself and the world. Even on a suicide forum, I am an outcast. Great. Just fucking great.
  14. Butterfly

    Butterfly Sim Addict Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    Nobody said anything of the sort Lone Wolf. In fact you yourself have probably over analysed what I said. I am sorry you took what I said completely the wrong way. In my view, if someone had said that to me, it may have been enough to make me go over the edge and kill myself. But that's me. That was the view point I was coming from. I don't necessarily think the human race is weak, because what it has achieved is magnificent, but I would say it is fragile. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong. Everyone has different opinions and will offer advice from different view points.
  15. AsphyxiateOnWords

    AsphyxiateOnWords If you're 555, then I'm 666.

    Wolf is right. Every single human being has weaknesses, thus we are all weak in some way. How is that at all difficult to comprehend?
  16. AlienBeing

    AlienBeing Well-Known Member

    I thought I was agreeing with Lone Wolf completely, so I don't understand if he's upset with me. I disagreed with poster after him mostly. But I think it's been a very interesting discussion all in all and there's no reason to get upset about differing opinions right? Perhaps this would be better off in the Soap Box section as it seems to be a philosophical discussion about weakness, strength and suffering and the original poster who started it all has not come back to weigh in on the matter, although I thought he had many more interesting points than have been addressed here. Personally, I feel I'm weak, both physically in that I'm ill and in physical pain all the time, and emotionally in that I am depressed all the time. But I think people maybe think that I am making some sort of judgement about this. I am not. I don't feel it's my fault at all that I am sick, ie weak. It's just my fate is all. Is it brave to go on and try to deal with it. Bravery implies a choice and there is not much choice if you are ill other than to try to get better or kill yourself and I'm too afraid to do that. I feel it would really be braver at this point to get up the nerve to do it. Mostly, all I've survived is a lot of illness, pain, isolation and lack of understanding or compassion from anyone. Is that a lot of shit? I don't know. I don't think I'm particulary wonderful or brave or strong, just pointlessly surviving, which I think is the general gist of the original poster and whole thread. I'd like to hear from that poster again as I could really relate to them. I thought of a song that fits this thread. And Lone Wolf, I'm sorry you found the discussion upsetting as I do like you and the things you have to say are interesting and thought provoking.

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2012
  17. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    I know alot of it starts with just you, the make and breaker of everything you percieve, especially in a non hostile enviornment. It's difficult to experience anything outside of yourself in a comfortable manner when things are distorted or defined with limitations or negativity. It just makes doing "simple" thing seem pointless. Alot of it comes from hopes, feelings, liberating yourself, making things you want happen.. being you.
    Suicide's a very justifiable thing, even reasonable. How you come about that rationality is another matter though. Sometimes we deny ourselves purposely, or out of protection, and forget that there was once a moment of a difference of opinon, where what we denied ourself, can actually be experienced.
    It's a dangerous thing... but you gotta fight for you guy. You gotta break out of those feelings and thoughts, and give yourself that chance again to feel and experience life. It's always there.
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