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When the universe tells you it's okay to go

MichaelKay

Well-Known Member
#1
So I am feeling kinda low. Or not kinda. I'm feeling very strange and ready to go. If that is even the right description. I don't feel sad per se but more a sort of "hollowness" inside like I'm having a derealization episode of sorts.

I've made sure I'm homeless by sunday and have cancelled my welfare check back in december to ensure I wouldn't just fall back into bad habits and pretend things are fine or worth the constant depressive mood, social anxiety, paranoia and inability to create and maintain social relationships but really get stuck down a hole with no way out. I haven't seen a friend since June 15th last year and I don't even want to see anyone or miss it anymore. I just want some peace and quiet.

Well, long story short; I walk the streets at night and collect whatever refundable bottles I can to get a bit of cash (since my solution requires a bit of cash) and tonight after being on the chat for a short while, I figured I'd take a shower but chose to go for a walk first. And then I find $8 worth of refundable bottles, go to the store and buy a beer and a sandwich and lo and behold, some unlucky customer dropped a bill (about $30) on the floor at the store which I pick up.

It's like the Universe is telling me it's okay. That circumstances are somehow lining up to let me know I can let go of the fear and present me with the exact solution I'm craving. I know it's crazy talk. I am schizotypal and people with that diagnosis often interpret coincedences to have some sort of significant personal meaning to them. I have never really struggled with that but I have to say that right now that idea that it means something significant is hard to dismiss for me. It feels very unreal but strangely comforting somehow.

I'm not sure what it is I'm trying to say. I feel like I'm just full of emotions I can't quite put words to and convey what is going on inside me. And I constantly feel ashamed for having a need to express myself because ultimately it feels self-indulgent and "pathetic" (in lack of a better word) to me that I even try when I know the first thing I do when someone gets the least interested is run and hide, feeling nauseous like someone can stare directly into my soul and see all my shortcomings and insecurities.
 
#2
I am brand new here.I signed up a couple days ago and this is my first post or response. Your post seemed familiar to me. Although I dont have any "plan" this time....I also feel hollow and just plain misunderstood. I am shy by nature. Dealing with others, only family because I cannot keep friendships, sucks. I've always felt out of place, a burden to others. It never seems that they care...even though they claim to. Their actions prove otherwise. Words are just words if there is no action.
I hope you can find comfort in knowing I too am struggling daily...even every minute...to live. It's really really hard! I do hope at some point we both can get out of this quicksand.
 
#3
Sorry that you're going through this Michael.
I constantly feel ashamed for having a need to express myself because ultimately it feels self-indulgent and "pathetic"
Reaching out can make you feel vulnerable, but it's also something really courageous and healthy. I guess the key is to reach out to people who are both willing and able to give you support. Please be gentle with yourself, it sounds like you are just doing the best you can under difficult circumstances.
I don't feel sad per se but more a sort of "hollowness" inside like I'm having a derealization episode of sorts.
Do you notice that how you feel varies with the seasons? I'm not saying that seasonal issues are necessarily a major factor for you, but they could be part of how you are feeling right now.
I've made sure I'm homeless by sunday and have cancelled my welfare check back in december to ensure I wouldn't just fall back into bad habits and pretend things are fine or worth the constant depressive mood, social anxiety, paranoia and inability to create and maintain social relationships
I'm sorry you've felt so bad for so long. Can I talk you into trying a different approach though? Maybe you could try some treatment methods that you haven't tried yet, and get your check back so you'll have time to try it out. There'll be plenty of time to kill yourself later if it comes to that, there's no rush. Wouldn't it be a tragedy if life could get better for you, but you threw it away without giving yourself enough of a chance to do that?

Wishing you good things.
 

MichaelKay

Well-Known Member
#5
I am brand new here.I signed up a couple days ago and this is my first post or response. Your post seemed familiar to me. Although I dont have any "plan" this time....I also feel hollow and just plain misunderstood. I am shy by nature. Dealing with others, only family because I cannot keep friendships, sucks. I've always felt out of place, a burden to others. It never seems that they care...even though they claim to. Their actions prove otherwise. Words are just words if there is no action.
I hope you can find comfort in knowing I too am struggling daily...even every minute...to live. It's really really hard! I do hope at some point we both can get out of this quicksand.
Thanks. I hope it gets better for you.
 

MichaelKay

Well-Known Member
#6
Sorry that you're going through this Michael.

Reaching out can make you feel vulnerable, but it's also something really courageous and healthy. I guess the key is to reach out to people who are both willing and able to give you support. Please be gentle with yourself, it sounds like you are just doing the best you can under difficult circumstances.

Do you notice that how you feel varies with the seasons? I'm not saying that seasonal issues are necessarily a major factor for you, but they could be part of how you are feeling right now.

I'm sorry you've felt so bad for so long. Can I talk you into trying a different approach though? Maybe you could try some treatment methods that you haven't tried yet, and get your check back so you'll have time to try it out. There'll be plenty of time to kill yourself later if it comes to that, there's no rush. Wouldn't it be a tragedy if life could get better for you, but you threw it away without giving yourself enough of a chance to do that?

Wishing you good things.

You see, the problem is I don't believe things will be better for me. I just don't. As far as I'm aware there's no cure for my mental illness so it's a lifetime of just feeling strange, different, anhedonic, dysthimic, anxious and paranoid. Fucking one relationship up after the other and the only thing I can look forward to is seeing a crappy tv-show in the evening and the meal I'm gonna eat. It feels like living on life-support and being told it's wrong to pull the plug because someday in the future a cure might get discovered and I can be brought back to consciousness. It feels like it's more society's desire to see me live (whatever they might deem a worthy life) than being upfront about my life being mine and I get to decide what quality of life I want to have. I don't intend to live for my family's sake or society's sake. I want to live for my own sake and when that doesn't seem feasible the "it can always get better" sounds more like someone elses hope than mine.

I do appreciate the sentiment though but ultimately I find it weird that society would rather see me medically lobotomised, sitting and rotting in a couch for 30 years, gaining 180 pounds from the meds that are supposed to drown any emotions or thoughts I might have than just accept that maybe life wasn't really for me in the end.
 
#7
You see, the problem is I don't believe things will be better for me. I just don't.
If you can suspend your disbelief and try some other treatment methods, that's all you need to do.
It feels like living on life-support and being told it's wrong to pull the plug because someday in the future a cure might get discovered and I can be brought back to consciousness
I guess the difference is that there are treatment methods that are available here and now, not awaiting discovery. That's not a guarantee that they'll work, but they're definitely there.
I do appreciate the sentiment though
You're welcome! :)
I find it weird that society would rather see me medically lobotomised, sitting and rotting in a couch for 30 years, gaining 180 pounds from the meds that are supposed to drown any emotions or thoughts I might have than just accept that maybe life wasn't really for me in the end.
I don't find it acceptable for you to rot away. I see what you're saying though, and I think it's definitely true that for a lot of people, a problem is ok as long as they don't have to actually face it, and someone dying seems like the big crisis rather than someone having to live a life they can't bear.

I'm just saying it's better to at least give all reasonable treatment methods available a try first.
 

MichaelKay

Well-Known Member
#9
If you can suspend your disbelief and try some other treatment methods, that's all you need to do.

I guess the difference is that there are treatment methods that are available here and now, not awaiting discovery. That's not a guarantee that they'll work, but they're definitely there.

You're welcome! :)

I don't find it acceptable for you to rot away. I see what you're saying though, and I think it's definitely true that for a lot of people, a problem is ok as long as they don't have to actually face it, and someone dying seems like the big crisis rather than someone having to live a life they can't bear.

I'm just saying it's better to at least give all reasonable treatment methods available a try first.
I don't know really. "Other treatment methods" sound like the heroin a dealer keeps selling his customer. Like "just believe" and somehow, someday it all just falls into place. And that's fine. But who wants to live 30-40 years in pain for those 6 months of decent life before passing away? There's like a cost/benefit thing there. And it ties in well with your last points about people actually not wanting to face reality but rather stay hopeful.

I just can't see my family getting any value out of knowing I'm suffering and worrying than just accept I can find peace. I can't see why society wants to keep me stuck on meds that makes me a zombie just to flaunt their "humanity". And I can't see why I should keep bashing myself over the head with not getting better from various different therapies, medications etc when that works well for other people. In the end the problem is myself. So I do appreciate the comments but I just don't really take them in and I have heard it so many times before. I feel like it's society's way of treating me like a paralyzed cripple, drooling all over myself, internally in pain I can't express and them feeling so proud for caring about me because it shows them how "humane" and caring they are. It's like living life as a sort of trophy for others, an ego thing meant to convince everyone how caring they all are.
 
#10
Like "just believe" and somehow, someday it all just falls into place
Well, you'd also have to try out the treatment method.
But who wants to live 30-40 years in pain for those 6 months of decent life before passing away?
I don't think that would be the outcome you'd get. I think you could try out some treatments, and they should probably show some signs that they're working in at least a few weeks. Things should then continue on the upswing. You wouldn't necessarily feel like solid gold, but maybe at least good enough that you'll feel like living is worthwhile. And if the treatments don't work out, then at least you tried.

I have heard it so many times before
I think the standard treatments people get are meds and therapy, and if those don't work out, then usually some variation of meds and therapy, and occasionally something more exotic like ECT is proposed.

I think acupuncture, Chinese herbal medicine, and self-treatment methods can work great, so I'd encourage you to check those treatment methods out.
 

MichaelKay

Well-Known Member
#11
Well, you'd also have to try out the treatment method.

I don't think that would be the outcome you'd get. I think you could try out some treatments, and they should probably show some signs that they're working in at least a few weeks. Things should then continue on the upswing. You wouldn't necessarily feel like solid gold, but maybe at least good enough that you'll feel like living is worthwhile. And if the treatments don't work out, then at least you tried.


I think the standard treatments people get are meds and therapy, and if those don't work out, then usually some variation of meds and therapy, and occasionally something more exotic like ECT is proposed.

I think acupuncture, Chinese herbal medicine, and self-treatment methods can work great, so I'd encourage you to check those treatment methods out.
I'm really sorry if it comes across as overly negative or something. I do appreciate the talk but it just doesn't ring a bell with me.

I believe most therapies work in so far the person attending the therapy is engaged with it and believes in it. I don't believe in diets or herbal medicine, religion or voodoo. I do believe that feeling it helps (by feeling some kind of meaning and potentialof a certain treatment, diet, religion, spirituality etc) works.

Like people just need to find whatever drug that makes them high and that's it. I've seen friends involved in weird diets, herbal stuff, religious or spiritual ideas on end. Like peeing your pants to keep warm for a while, try something new when it gets cold, rinse and repeat. I don't believe in curing my ailments but I do know I can distract myself with other stuff for a while but I'm just not interested in that. I'm a former addict and I know all too well that simply managing by dedicating myself to some drug or pseudo-"cure" isn't gonna make it better. It's all distractions. Living for the sake of living while constantly trying to persuade myself there's some kind of meaning or value to it all just doesn't work. It's distraction at best and an inability to really face things head-on.

Edit: I have been offered ECT twice but again; It's just a postponing of the same problems that will inevitably return. And I'm not suffering a major depression. My life isn't black or white. It's just contionously grey.
 
Last edited:
#12
I don't believe in diets or herbal medicine, religion or voodoo
simply managing by dedicating myself to some drug or pseudo-"cure" isn't gonna make it better
The scientific method is a very powerful thing. If you say action a under conditions b will produce result c, that's a testable hypothesis. If you say any treatment, conventional or alternative, is going to effect a cure then there should be some evidence to support that.

I don't know that treatments like acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine will help with Schizotypal Personality Disorder specifically, but I know there's evidence that these treatments can help with Schizophrenia, and Schizotypal is on the Schizophrenia spectrum. That sounds to me like a reasonable basis for trying them out, especially when your alternative seems to be a suicide attempt.

I have been offered ECT twice but again; It's just a postponing of the same problems that will inevitably return
I think a lot of people get long-term benefits from ECT. I'd recommend trying acupuncture and traditional Chinese herbal medicine first simply because sometimes people can feel worse after ECT, but if you won't try anything else, then you should probably give ECT a try.
And I'm not suffering a major depression
I can't give you a diagnosis, but if you've got it bad enough that you are having serious thoughts of killing yourself, then you've got it bad enough that treatment methods are called for.

You've really got nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying some treatments. If they work, great. If they don't work, it's not like that's a step down from being dead.
 

MichaelKay

Well-Known Member
#13
You've really got nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying some treatments. If they work, great. If they don't work, it's not like that's a step down from being dead.
Being stuck in mental pain for decades isn't "losing anything" at such. But it's still pretty hard and sometimes not worth it. Like I said earlier it feels like being on life-support although that might atleast be a painless experience and not one that constantly fucks with your mind, selfesteem, desire to live and hope.

Experience shows people in prolonged isolation will eventually begin to selfharm because they break down and can't take it anymore. I'm not in isolation but my mind feels that way. How does "you have nothing to lose" account for that? Just 5-10-20-30-50 years more of mentally suffering and it might get better? People who are suicidal are often so because they want to escape pain, not keep living in pain for the rest of their lives, clinging on to a hope that something suddenly makes it stop.
 
#14
Just 5-10-20-30-50 years more of mentally suffering and it might get better?
I'm not talking about years or decades, I'm talking about a few weeks or months.

You've suffered a lot for a long time. I'm not denying that. You've obviously endured at lot of loneliness and pain. I'm not saying you should just go on for decades with no change. Can you at least give treatment methods a couple of months before you think about attempting suicide though?
 

MichaelKay

Well-Known Member
#15
I'm not talking about years or decades, I'm talking about a few weeks or months.

You've suffered a lot for a long time. I'm not denying that. You've obviously endured at lot of loneliness and pain. I'm not saying you should just go on for decades with no change. Can you at least give treatment methods a couple of months before you think about attempting suicide though?
BUT there's always something different to try. There are enough therapies, self-help gurus, meds, diets etc to keep me trying and trying and trying and trying and trying for 40 life-times. When is it okay to call quits?
 
#16
Well, instead of going for 40 lifetimes, is there some lesser amount of time that you could budget to trying treatments before making a suicide attempt?
 

MichaelKay

Well-Known Member
#17
Well, instead of going for 40 lifetimes, is there some lesser amount of time that you could budget to trying treatments before making a suicide attempt?
How many specifically? How is 12+ different types of medication (all taking time to adjust up and down), coaches, shrinks, psychologists, therapists, diets and exercises over a 14 year span not still enough? How many different treatments are enough? You need to be specific because all I hear is "just try one more" repeated. "The next one is gonna make a difference". And I'll be hearing the same 20 years from now I suspect. All it does is reinforce the idea I'm the problem but I'm not allowed to take the consequences of that.
 
#18
How is 12+ different types of medication (all taking time to adjust up and down), coaches, shrinks, psychologists, therapists, diets and exercises over a 14 year span not still enough?
That's quite a lot that you've tried, and quite a long time. I'm sorry that nothing helped.

You need to be specific because all I hear is "just try one more" repeated.
I would say try acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine, and maybe some of the self-treatment methods in my signature link at the same time. You ought to see some level of improvement in a few weeks.

If it's not helping, or it's not helping enough, then I'd recommend going for ECT.

Since you've already tried meds and med changes, I don't think there's anything that really stands out.
 

MichaelKay

Well-Known Member
#19
That's quite a lot that you've tried, and quite a long time. I'm sorry that nothing helped.


I would say try acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine, and maybe some of the self-treatment methods in my signature link at the same time. You ought to see some level of improvement in a few weeks.

If it's not helping, or it's not helping enough, then I'd recommend going for ECT.

Since you've already tried meds and med changes, I don't think there's anything that really stands out.
But here's the thing; I'm not depressed. I'm schizotypal and depression is just a symptom of that. How is herbal medicine going to take my social anxiety, paranoia and derealization away? I used to get NADA (ear and facial acupuncture) in rehab and while it did relax me and lessened my cravings it didn't really do much else. I also momentarily enjoyed mindfulness and meditation because it reduced my cravings and made me relax a bit but essentially didn't help my mental issues in any way. No more so than sleep would do.

Let's stop it here because I keep thinking the same thing over and over; If only I believe in something it will surely help and when it doesn't I just try something else. And I can go back and forth like that for decades realizing I spent my whole life trying to please society and people's reluctancy to admit some people just don't get better. And I'm okay calling it my problem and not the gazillion different meds, therapies, shrinks, psychs, diets, exercises or whatever. I take full responsibility for my failure to get better. And I won't believe in some sort of "miracle cure" I just have yet to stumble across.

Thanks for the interaction though. It meant a lot to me and I'm sorry to seem so negative. Take care.
 
#20
I'm schizotypal and depression is just a symptom of that. How is herbal medicine going to take my social anxiety, paranoia and derealization away? I used to get NADA (ear and facial acupuncture) in rehab and while it did relax me and lessened my cravings it didn't really do much else.
I guess Chinese medicine might help Schizotypal the same way it helps with Schizophrenia.

The treatments that you got in rehab sound like they were for treating addiction, and weren't geared toward treating Schizotypal. You'd have to tell them what you want treated. That's not a guarantee that these treatments would help, but it sounds like they'd be worth a try.
I also momentarily enjoyed mindfulness and meditation because it reduced my cravings and made me relax a bit but essentially didn't help my mental issues in any way. No more so than sleep would do.
The benefit of meditation doesn't come while you are meditating. It may be relaxing while you do it, but the point is that if you do it for about an hour a day for three years, you gain the ability to relax in response to stressful situations in your daily life. It's like hitting tennis balls against a wall. Meditation isn't the game itself, it prepares you for the game.

I take full responsibility for my failure to get better
I get it, you've had enough. I still wish you'd at least give ECT a try.
Thanks for the interaction though
You're welcome!
I'm sorry to seem so negative
No worries mate. I guess if I were in your shoes I'd probably be the same.
 

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