Whole Foods Healthcare Article

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Mikeintx, Aug 15, 2009.

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  1. Mikeintx

    Mikeintx Well-Known Member

  2. shades

    shades Staff Alumni

    Mike, thanks for bringing up this article. I think you are a great guy in many respects based on you thoughts and responses to other people over the last several months that I've been here.

    But I could spend 6 months pointing out statistics and falsehoods inherent in this article.

    The main issue though is that they mention at least twice that there is NO INTRINSIC RIGHT to healthcare and that there should not be a health entitlement. WHY NOT?

    Why are most people who have jobs afforded health insurance while those of us who cannot get one and have little money sit on the sidelines without it? Is that fair? Why are their lives more important than mine? Why should they have a right to cancer treatment when I won't if I get cancer?

    They keep comparing a plan that might arise to those of other countries. No completed bill has yet to be proposed so no comparison can yet be made.

    Why should nearly 50 million people be without it? To keep down the deficit?
    F**k the deficit. They'll figure it out. They have been talking about deficit spending in government since I was in high school, 35 years ago.

    I'm sure that the health care industry would be delighted if everyone without health insurance dropped dead on the spot. All they give a shit about is their profit margin.

    YES, I trust the government more than I trust the health care industry.

    How about this? Stop the war, and all future ground wars! All we need for protection is a few high flying drones with very nasty bombs. It's alot cheaper than extended ground wars which accomplish nothing. Take what we've spent in the last two Iraq wars and the war in Afghanistan which is going to continue indefinitely and that will take a $Trillions off the deficit.
     
  3. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    You're on a roll with this stimulating discussion my friend ;)

    I've personally always found it strange that healthcare remains a notable exception to our rights as Americans. We have universal education, the services of police officers and emergency workers, and social security for all elderly Americans. So - ideologically speaking - why is something as crucial as our health considered so fundementally wrong to ensure universally?

    Of course there are many arguments and reasons why but I'm not about to get into it any more than this for now :p
     
  4. Mikeintx

    Mikeintx Well-Known Member

    Lol that I am.... the reason I liked this article is not regarding the issue of whether or not people are entitled to health care, but the points that the owner of whole foods stated could help our system. Our country is estimated to be wasting 147 billion dollars this year due to obesity alone... do you really want your taxes going to paying for people that can't even take care of themselves?

    I think of my own father for instance, ate shitty his whole life, smoked 3 packs a day, ended up have a triple bypass and a whole bunch of different stuff done to him. Id say he easily had 500k spent on him over the past 10 years, this is without private health insurance. Here is a completely irresponsible guy wasting tax dollars and he still refuses to take care of himself.

    Then I think of all the other americans out there doing similar things... my large job was at a large mail order rx company and I spoke to people all across the us regarding their rxs... you would be surprised how many people would bitch and moan over little things such as heart burn and would be taking expensive drugs(that their health insruance companies paid for) that could easily be fixed by some healthy life style changes.

    Working a stressful job last year, I developed high blood pressure. The doctor wanted to put me on something to bring it down. I refued, changed my diet, cut caffeine, and started doing more cardiovascular work. My blood pressure is now 110/60. How many people would have chose the magic pill in this case?

    We have seen what the government does with insurance- Medicare. This is a whole nother post regarding the horror stories created by that. Or you might take the USPS for example, like president obama did, oh wait, they were what, 10 billion dollars in debt this year too?

    Please do not get me wrong, I think our health system needs an overhaul, I really do, but I do not believe our wonderful government is going to do it.

    Also in response to the 50 million people uninsured I found this and a few other articles: http://nrinstitute.org/mediamalpractice/?p=134




    P.S. either way, I like how these past discussions have gone, no name calling, just stating facts and our opinions :) If only more people would do this our country would be much better off
     
  5. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    Hah, in my tiredness when I posted I forgot to mention that I never got to read the whole article. But yes, I agree with you and support the aspect of healthcare known as preventative health - i.e. teach people, especially children, about nutrition, exercise, and general health from an early age and/or through a series of social services organizations.

    Part of the reason countries like those in Western Europe or Japan maintain relatively sustainable universal healthcare is not just the mix of private and public enterprise but the fact that their populations are quite healthy all-around, putting less strain on the system.

    You righly highlighted obesity as well. I recently read an article in which obesity-related causes cost up to $200 billion on average, half of which was payed by tax dollars through programs like Medicare. That is more expensive than the effects of any other preventable cause, including smoking!

    You made yet another good point concerning wastage in our medical system. Again, a report I read on healthcare concluded that our ultimate problem wasn't excessive drug costs or doctor's pay (in fact both drugs and doctors are relatively cheap to mid-range in price compared to elsewhere in the world): it was the disproportionate amount of spending done by a small segment of the population for mostly unimportant procedures. Less 'pay-for-procedure' incentive, by which doctors get paid based on what they do as opposed to whether you end up healthy in the end, is one culprit. So is basic ignorance on healthy living.

    And I agree that I'm thoroughly enjoying these civil debates. This is what discussion is meant to be! :)
     
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