Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Europe?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Bob26003, Jan 8, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Bob26003

    Bob26003 Well-Known Member

    I think in big part because America due to this me me me conservative ideology that has plagued us, we have lost sense of solidarity and common good and in this togetherness. We now have 7 percent of the labor unions we had in 1970 and the fact that real wages have been stagnate since reagans evil ass took office is a testament to the masses falling victim to exploitation easier without the strength of solidarity.

    Since 911 we have surrendered many rights we will never get back. We need to regain the spirit and momentum of movements like the labor unions and the civil rights and Womens suffrage.

    Too often ppl forget that we were not given out of the goodness of the corporations heart, things like: child labor law, equal pay, eight hour day, pensions, sick days, paid in real money rather than company tokens. NO these things had to be fought for.

    This is the key ingrediant that these corporatist libertarians always forget. Im sorry but if you dont make the corporation follow rules and regulations, they wont. They will have 9 year olds in the factory unless there is a law to say they cant. They will make you work eighty hours a week and you will have to because that is the only way to feed your family. That is unless you unite and fight it, and get the laws passed to protect you.

    I believe that is an essential role of Gov. as defined in the constitution under article one "provide for the common welfare" in that ppl must be protected from exploitation and the excesses of the free market.

    *****************




    Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Europe?
    While London has been rocked by student protests over proposed tuition hikes, United States college campuses have been largely quiet. Why?
    January 3, 2011 |




    While London has been rocked by student protests over proposed tuition hikes, United States college campuses have been largely quiet. Tens of thousands of students in the UK have taken to the streets -- confronting police, storming the Conservative Party headquarters, even halting the motorcade of the British monarch Prince Charles.

    In fact, all across Europe students are revolting. For months, Italian students have been protesting tuition cuts and budget reforms. Greek students have not responded kindly to IMF endorsed austerity measures. And proposed cuts to the pension system have driven French students, in typical fashion, apoplectic.

    Courtney Martin in The American Prospect asks: “But why are the U.K. crowds almost 500 times as robust as those in the U.S.? Why does the American movement to fight tuition hikes and funding cuts remain so anemic in comparison?”

    And she answers her question: “In no small part, it's because privileged students at America's colleges and universities generally don't take the issue personally. Those who are politically active tend to set their sights on distant horizons—the poor in India, say, or the oppressed in Afghanistan.”

    When the young and privileged take their “do-gooderism” abroad, they take a lot of the energy for local activism with them. Interesting rationale, but I don’t think it fully explains the discrepancy.

    What best explains the dormancy on many college campuses is rooted in a national condition. The social value placed on universally accessible higher education has declined. College used to be dramatically less expensive because it was heavily subsidized by the state. The past few decades have seen “massive disinvestment”. In the accompanying time, the burden of financing higher education has shifted to the individual.

    Or as Tom Hayden, one of the co-founders of Students for a Democratic Society, told me “The question for today’s student is not whether they can read Zinn, Anais Nin or Noam Chomsky, but whether they can afford to.”

    Hayden added:



    The challenges they (students) face on their campuses are far different than the past and perhaps more profound. Tuition costs at UM in 1960 were one hundred dollars, and I can’t remember if that was for a semester or an entire year. So I could obtain my degree, edit the paper, go south to the civil rights movement for two years, return and enter graduate school, and never feel I was falling behind in the competitive economic rat-race…A student today falls tens of thousands of dollars in debt, even after holding two part-time jobs, a burden which limits their career choices. Dropping out for social activism brings competitive disadvantage.



    Public higher education is no longer seen as serving the broader social good. And if you can afford college—likely through high indebtedness—the four, five, or six years you’re there are spent making yourself more employable. Colleges aren’t enabling greater democratic citizenship anymore, they’re producing wage earners. There is a trend towards privatization and commoditization that’s quite troubling.

    In 2009 the University of Virginia received a mere 8 percent of its funding from the state of Virginia, down from nearly 30 percent from a quarter century ago. At the University of Wisconsin, only 19 percent comes from state dollars also down from 30 percent a decade ago. And at the University of Iowa, state appropriations have dropped by 35 percentage points since 1980. For comparison, since 1982 college tuition in the US has increased by 439 percent, more than four times the rate of inflation. Healthcare costs have risen 250 percent during the same period.

    Students in the UK were protesting more than tuition cuts. Writing in the London Review of Books, Stefani Collini notes that:



    Essentially, Browne is contending that we should no longer think of higher education as the provision of a public good, articulated through educational judgment and largely financed by public funds (in recent years supplemented by a relatively small fee element). … Britain's universities, it is proposed, should henceforth operate in accordance with the tenets of perfect competition theory.



    Nina Power, one of the student protestors, wrote in The Guardian that “It was a protest against the narrowing of horizons; a protest against Lib Dem hypocrisy; a protest against the increasingly utilitarian approach to human life that sees degrees as nothing but "investments" by individuals, and denies any link between education and the broader social good.”

    In this light it’s not difficult to understand why the protests in Europe are so large and largely non-existent in the U.S. British students are fighting a transformation of their society that has long taken hold in the US.

    http://www.alternet.org/economy/149...ion_hikes_like_college_kids_in_europe/?page=2
     
  2. Youth

    Youth Active Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    American students just don't seem to have the time to riot. As a college student at a Private college that sits right in the smack center of a large public Big Ten University I've noticed that students don't really seem moved by politics. The liberals are, how should I put this? docile, and the conservatives are well, feeding themselves Bush tax cuts so it doesn't really effect them.
    Ever since I arrived on campus I kind of thought a lot of students were like me, trying to promote change and be active, but I've been stunned by the fact that nobody seems interested in changing anything. They all seem quite complacent and happy. Another big thing could be the heightened importance of test scores. Very intelligent students are busting their balls to do good in tests, so that they can stay in school.
    “The question for today’s student is not whether they can read Zinn, Anais Nin or Noam Chomsky, but whether they can afford to.” -- This pretty much sums it up for American college students nowadays. And reminds me of some really smart people I know. We have some very smart people around, but sometimes they don't have as much money as others. I know someone with a 130 IQ who is gifted in almost everything, but puts all of their attention into extra-curricular activities. Professors scorn him, because his grades aren't very good. Students scorn him, because he doesn't test or work in groups very well. But, he's brilliant and has really good ideas, but it does not matter, Because one day, he'll need a job and job's value education over almost anything else, even skills and intelligence!
    Well, anyways, I'll post the article link on my Facebook status and see if even one person reads it. I bet that not even one (out of 500 college "friends") will read it! Dostoyevski is laughing himself to sleep right now. Umpf! :mortd:
     
  3. jota1

    jota1 Well-Known Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    What college Kids in Europe? your talking about the ones in London? That ended up being a fiasco.

    The rest of Europe Is quite calm. we have to wait and see how some European countries are going to deal with the deficit and what cuts will be made. As far as the UK is concerned their tackling their debt before the other countries and will be the first out of this recession. Is that worth some pain in the short term and having some kids destroy some shop windows? Yep

    Europe will cautiously/slowly resolve its own problems but the UK will be far ahead of everyone else.
     
  4. Romancer

    Romancer Well-Known Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    the rest of the europe isn't quite calm, i mean..i know about at least 3 or 4 countries that are having riots, including mine. and the school system is only getting worse. <.<
     
  5. jota1

    jota1 Well-Known Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    Greece was about the deficit cuts and not about universities, France was more social unrest than anything else, Italy was also budget cuts. Its normal for people to resent having their salary frozen for a year and in Europe its quite normal to go to the streets to express discontentment. frankly I have not seen much more than what we would have had in a normal year.

    I can distinctly remember in 2005, 2006 and again (if im not mistaken) in 2007 there being riots in France and that had nothing to do with university cuts. I thinks its great that people express themselves (if not influenced by the Marxists and greens), it keeps government in check and is part of a democracy.

    I just hate seeing people destroy other peoples property just for violence sake. What did the poor shopkeepers do to deserve having their windows broken and goods stolen and what did the ordinary folk do to deserve having their cars burnt?
     
  6. Romancer

    Romancer Well-Known Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    it's not just streets though, i mean, dunno what you call riot, but we have our own protests as well.

    sometimes people get the point only with violence?
     
  7. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    Why are we rioting?

    Because a millionaire inheritee who attended the most prestigious University in the UK for FREE is telling us that by tripling the costs we have too attend.
    Simultaneously, the party I voted for whos MP's all signed an agreement too vote against ANY rise in tuition did the opposite. Actually, I tell a lie, of the 52 Lib Dem MP's who got through only 20 something voted in favour against the orders of their superiors and for that they have my respect. Basically if half of those who voted in favour had kept to their election promises this wouldn't be an issue.
    Further the supposedly progressive part of this ruling means that the poorest students wont have to pay two years of tuition. However the government arn't going to fund this rise meaning folks like me are going to have too pay more to the University too subsidise these kids and that ALL of us will receive poorer services while fucking Etonians ask their folks to pay their fees in advance and Oxbridge prospers while the poorer the students of a university the poorer their fucking education will be.

    Myself however am protesting as their isnt a non radical party I can now turn too, Labour introduced tuition fees itself and the fucking Brown report is their work, the Torys I expect this from anyway and the Lib Dems might aswell have sent back my vote with a shit stain smiley face.


    Edit: Were those French riots not racially motivated back in 2005/6/7? The recent ones are over the government raising the retirement age.
     
  8. jota1

    jota1 Well-Known Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    I understand that you feel betrayed by the party you voted for but you British dont understand how a coalition government works. You have to achieve consensus between the parties that are in government. CONSENSUS implies winning and loosing some battles. In your case both parties have to give in to each other, in Germany its even worse.
    Were used to them in mainland Europe and so you too will have to get accustomed to how they work.
     
  9. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    I voted for the Lib Dems because they are the only party who oppose War, want Nuclear disarmament and wish to abolish tuition fees.
    What they've done is acheived to knock 400 pounds off the poorests income tax and voted on another policy which takes it straight out their pocket through VAT.
    This isn't compromise, these policies are outright regresive and their leadership has sold out every value that people voted in favour of them for. I wish I voted Tory to be honest because although I do not believe they are going the right thing for Britain they've been honest in that they were going to make massive cuts too reduce Labours spending deficit.
    I'll never ever vote Labour as they havn't had the interests of the British people at heart for the last 12 years and now I will refuse to vote for the Lib Dems while Vince Cable and Nick Clegg are at the helm.
     
  10. Morgana

    Morgana Well-Known Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    I think that maybe part of it is that in the U.S., fees/tuition are generally raised pretty gradually. It's not all at once, this giant hike. And if it is, it's one or two universities, so students can just decide to go elsewhere.

    As far as I know, that wasn't the case in the U.K., it was a massive hike up for apparently no real reason [the reason didn't make sense, as far as I read/heard].
     
  11. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    The reason is that the previous UK government has spent the last few years spending 25% more than the revenue they raise and now they governments making austerity cuts.
    However they're using these cuts in the least progressive way they thought they could get away with too attack the lowest societal earners.

    Under the current scheme it will be more expensive for a University to set on the poorest of students than the richest for example as the government is going to give them two years free tuition, however they aren't going too pay the University either. Guess how many kids will get accepted when they get an application from a working class school like the one I attended...
     
  12. Isabel

    Isabel Staff Alumni

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    I can see we have a great believer in free speech here. "Its good for people to express themselves as long as they do according to narrow party lines. And the heck with the biosphere we all depend to live, and the heck with any idea that society should be anything else than a corporate jungle..." The ghost of McCarthy must smile.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2011
  13. Hache

    Hache Well-Known Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    The people who "rioted" in the UK were scum not students.

    Who goes to a protest with their hood up or a balaclava or scarf covering their face? I'll tell you who, chav scum.

    I actually wouldn't be surprised one bit if the riots contributed to the tuition fee rises being put through in parliament, some MPs may well have been spiteful in their voting or influenced by the damage caused in London.

    Thousands of students peacefully protested in cities across the UK, thousands went to London to peacefully protest, a few hundred youth hoodlum went to join in the London one's ruining it for all.
     
  14. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    As far as I'm concerned the only problem with those "scum" is that their were not enough of them.
    Peaceful protests on a single issue aren't going to work, all three parties tow the same fucking line. Students arn't the fire service and police, when they're getting fuck they can threaten strikes, the unions call strikes, things which cost the government money which is all theyre concerned with at the end of the day.
    Students can however burn cars, blockade streets and cause mayhem.
    David Cameron doesn't give a flying fuck about a few thousand people holding signs, he just sits and laughs that they've all wasted days of their life in an ineffective cause.
    He would however care if each one of those people were setting fires in the Banks, Virgin, Vodaphone and Top shop stores and their tax avoiding owners started calling in the favours he owes them.
     
  15. shades

    shades Staff Alumni

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    I think the issue in the United States is as follows:

    This is approximately the 3rd generation following WWII. Each generation began to help their children financically so that they would lead a better life.

    My grandparents helped my parents, they helped me and though I do not have children, my siblings are now assisting their children to go to college.

    Each of these generations has acquired more and more money so there are many privileged (and spoiled in many cases) students whose parents are footing the bill.

    Also, the influx of wealthy immigrants are making sure their children have the best education possible.

    Finally, those who don't have the benefit of a situation as stated above are able to obtain student loans (in most cases) and there are Junior Colleges which do not cost very much.

    Bottom line: Evidently we have become "COMFORTABLY NUMB"
     
  16. jota1

    jota1 Well-Known Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro


    Thats what i wanted to say but its not my country so I didnt! Its pure inciting to violence.

    Democracy is not this
     
  17. jota1

    jota1 Well-Known Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    I have seen a revolution and I was in favor of it at the time. I also saw how easily a revolution can be manipulated in the wrong hands. We lost some 20 years of progress because of what Marxist, extremist idiots did to my country.

    I am sure that East German people can also vouch for what I am saying.

    So before you can moralize about free speech you should at least know what the lack of free speech is all about.
     
  18. Isabel

    Isabel Staff Alumni

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro


    I find your comments quite surprising, considering that for all its excesses, its the left which got you from under the boot of the Estavo Novo. If I were you, I'd be way more worried by the extreme right crazies making a comeback. Free speech is like orgasm, to know what it's like, you need to experience it. You cant experience something in absentia. Since until recently your country was a fascist dictatorship, you would not have much experience with the concept, individually and collectively. Personally, I cant fathom somebody who would prefer living under a fascist dictatorship than under a social democracy, ask the Danes or the Canadians. Even if that means going through the growing pains coming out of a revolution. As for the green agenda, just hold your breath counting your money and see which of one you need the most, the economy or the biosphere. Anyhow, your country economy is circling the drain, so much for swallowing hook and bait globalization and savage capitalism. Before moralizing, read some history and get some perspective...
     
  19. Hache

    Hache Well-Known Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro


    It is illegal for the Police and NHS to strike. They sign an agreement in their contracts to prevent them from doing so, the fire service can strike because they arn't as indispensable.

    The student rioting was not organised successful rioting as I assume you are talking about wanting. Success would be the french students blocking every petrol station and bringing their country to its knees thus forcing the hand of the government. That is how to successfully get your way through force. What some youth thugs did in London was use it as a way to fight the police, an excuse to smash things up and get away with it.

    You are right, peaceful protest doesn't always do much, infact all it sometimes does is prey on the mind of the politicians and make them back down because they want votes. 1 million people lined the streets of London to tell Blair not to go to Iraq, thats no good you have to strike a blow to the heart WITHOUT causing injury or damage to property.

    When French protests turn into car burning warfare that is because they are also led by out of control youths.

    As we see often in England, when protests turn violent innocent people get caught in the way of the Police. If violence had of gotten worse then the police would have little choice but to batter everyone near them, when the police react the crowds get angrier as well, more people want to "join the cause" which happened in London, from the Police perspective they are standing their having to take hits from missiles flying out of a crowd and thus the officers are getting angrier and angrier so when they are given the command to move forward they do so brutally, they have to, even though in these situations they are doing it less brutally than most of the continent where they crack open the cans of tear gas and big batons and just go all out.
     
  20. jota1

    jota1 Well-Known Member

    Re: Why Aren't US Students Rioting Over Crazy Tuition Hikes Like College Kids in Euro

    I dont know what your talking about but I will endeavor to answer somewhat.

    Fascism has no owner, it can come from the right and it can come from the left and i have seen both. Both extreme left and extreme right use it in order to hold power, you can choose the left, I choose neither.

    Growing pains coming out of a revolution, please don't even go there. Just after the initial movement towards democracy there was a "coup d´etat" from the extreme left (with support form Russia) that nearly worked. We did not have pains we bled to death and we are still paying the price.

    I wont go into the absentia comment its silly, not on the same level of your previous comments.

    You profess democracy yet you seem to moralize onto others what you think is best for them, and that is very much like what you criticize about the US external policy.

    The green movement may have originated from the good intentions of a few people but in most countries in Europe its supported and and mostly funded (and manipulated) by the communist party. This is very unfortunate because it removes all credibility from an otherwise very important "green" agenda.

    Firstly you did not read my previous post or you will know that I am (untill proven wrong) anti globalization, as you say its unfair and quite savage.

    Yes my country's economy is circling the drain because of sovereign debt crisis created by the speculators, the Banks, should you wish to read on the subject, are quite healthy and their main problem is short term liquidity not solvency. Have you seen our labor laws and our Constitution? they are both remnants from the revolution and the "leftish" period just after the revolution. We suffer because we are not competitive. Too many taxes, too strict labor laws, 51% state employees, socialist government and archaic laws that no one has the balls to change.

    If this is your ideal for the world your welcome to move here so you can test it for yourself.

    I however would never leave my country because we have wonderful people, a great climate and we are survivors.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.