Why bother. I will never be part of a group.

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by Vee, Jan 9, 2014.

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  1. Vee

    Vee Active Member

    I realized why i'm constantly depressed. I'm alone. Perpetually a "group of one".

    I am white, and I am male and I am intelligent which means that:

    to minorities I am the issue, the oppressor, the one with privilege.
    to women I am again the oppressor, schrodinger's rapist, the one with privilege.
    to other men I am competition. For women, for jobs, for breathable air.
    to the religious I am the god-hating and devil worshiping atheist.
    to the conservatives I am too smart to be one of them because I just cannot act that stupid.
    to the racists I am their worst enemy, a white man that does not want to hate.

    Nobody trusts me. Nobody wants me on their side. And nobody understands that is all I really want in life. It drives every single decision I make.

    And yet after 30 years I am no closer to that goal today than I was then.

    I do not consider the liberals or the atheists to actually be "groups". Because they do not act like them. (A "Unitarian Church" is about a cohesive as mixing pure sodium and water) Nor are meetups, social groups, or other "popularity contest" groups actual "groups with base commonalities. These are merely acquaintances by common interest,

    When do you finally give up hope because the game is rigged and just throw in the towel?
  2. scaryforest

    scaryforest Banned Member

    there's a lot of social stigmas or whatyouhaveit here. and assuming everyone lives by them.
    there are genuine non- judging people out there
  3. Vee

    Vee Active Member

    In my experience most people do, to a degree.

    Think for example how a woman will treat a woman she does not know very differently than a man she does not know.
  4. demuredawn

    demuredawn Well-Known Member

    honestly, i am a woman... and i can tell you until very recently i treated everyone the same.... male/female, black/white/indian/mexican/purple, christian/non-christian, old/young, smart/learning disabled, short/tall .... didn't matter

    what mattered to me was the person you were on the inside. your morals, how you treated people, etc.... those things are what mattered

    now i know you will point to what i said "until very recently" and say, ah, but you aren't that way anymore, what changed it? the very fact is, i was hurt quite a bit on a constant basis this past month, and i'm still not completely sure of all the changes that have happened b/c of that pain, all i know is that i am in fact changed.... but scaryforest is right, there are people out there that do not judge... or maybe they slightly do, but its not based on superficial things, its based on what it seen through your actions and interactions.... i was one of them, not sure if i still am or not.... and what damages that, causes those people to become fewer in number is the insistance by many many many people that they in fact, simply do not exist and if they claim to, they are just liars...... think on it, how would you feel if you were told that your very existance is just a lie?
  5. sweetles

    sweetles Well-Known Member

    how do you mean? i am a woman who has never ever had a female friend, so i am very tense and uncomfortable around women i don't know (and most of those i do, frankly), it doesn't matter how nice they may seem. strange men otoh don't cause any discomfort whatsoever, because i believe that men are typically more forthright and logic-minded, there is no guessing or assuming at their true thoughts and feelings.

    as for your feeling that your being a white atheist male leaving you not part of any group, i believe you are in fact part of a very large group. perhaps it's not a community which provides the kind of support you need, but you do in fact belong. imagine being a black American atheist submissive female, talk about not having a group!! i have no place within my own so-called ethnic "culture" because i do not subscribe to their values either religiously or for a woman. there is the stereotype of the "strong black woman" that every black female is supposed to strive for, and i am naturally inclined to submit to others, and most especially to men, i have no desire to rule or have power over anyone or anything. compound that with being supremely socially awkward and shy, nerdy and just plain weird...yeah there are many of us who have no group. who just don't belong and never have or will.

    as for hope, that's a game for suckers.
  6. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    I am sorry to say Vee you sound like the one with all the pre-conceived notions and stereotypes and prejudices. I suspect that is what is as much a part of the problem as the things you are listing.
    Stop making assumptions about the way people are going to treat you and stop presuming what others are thinking as individuals based on your concepts of what you think huge segments of the world might think and you may find it easier to get to know people. You say you do not want to be alone- then get to know and look at people as individuals as opposed to giant classes and you might be more successful in finding companionship.
  7. MotownJohnny

    MotownJohnny Member

    I doubt this will help, since you sound like you tried social groups, interest groups, etc without success. But, I can totally related, I'm a white male, politically liberal, I consider myself a very agnostic, unaffiliated Christian in a cultural sense, but I certainly don't practice it or belong to any organized group. And, I have been so completely isolated and alone my whole life, because my abusive father kept me isolated and a child, and it made me afraid to try to meet people, afraid to join, afraid to even try.

    Until last year, after my big breakdown and day hospital program. I realized I had to change or die. I always wanted desperately to belong, but lacked the self-confidence to do it, and I always felt totally inadequate and inferior. But, after that, I forced myself. I did a "crazy" thing that I desperately wanted to do my whole life - I joined a very upscale health club, and it truly has been a lifesaver. I found out that I do "belong", people have loved and accepted me there, even the few who know my true situation regarding my breakdown and subsequent problems.

    I really broke out of my shell by doing that -- and joining group fitness programs helped a lot with that, I got to know a lot of people, and it's gone beyond merely the club to having outside contact and friendship. In fact, I'm doing something really great tomorrow night, having a night out "with the guys" - something the old me never would have done.

    Now, I'm getting into team training, triathlon and cycling. Even more opportunities to make lasting friendships.
  8. Vee

    Vee Active Member

    You do not understand the problem I detail.

    What I am looking for is a group, a team, people with similarities. You say "thinking as individuals", and frankly that is part of the issue in my mind, we have become too many individuals and not enough large groups.

    For example, a church group is made up of individuals, but they are accepting of others (for the most part) just because they want to be (or are already) part of that group.
  9. demuredawn

    demuredawn Well-Known Member

    well i cant help you there then, because i believe quite the opposite.... we need less groups/predjudices, and more ability to be accepted individuals
  10. Tabula Ras

    Tabula Ras Member

    As human beings we have strayed from how things used to be long ago which has resulted in people constantly feeling like outcasts as everyone wishes to be this "individual" and their own island. No longer do we accept each other for who they are, practice an open mind, and understand each others contributions and abilities. It's a poisonous rat-race society in which everyone desires to be the special someone the rest evolve around and must do everything in their power to prove to everyone one else that they are number one.

    If one can comprehend, individualism is becoming the downfall of society as we reside in these huge towns and groups called cities ignoring everyone and only caring about ourselves. Only in America do they teach their students how special each individual is and how unique each child will be as we can all be whatever we want and grow up to do anything we want. Other societies will emphasize that this is only possible through hard work and determination, and even then it may not be possible to achieve.

    It's a more advanced concept most cannot grasp nor will ever try, but I took some time to find a somewhat inspiring quote which I think relates to what you are talking about, Vee...

    "From what little I know of prehistory, man roamed the Earth for hundreds of thousands of years in small tribes -- probably no more than two hundred people per group. During this time all wisdom was passed along according to the oral tradition. Everything you needed to know in order to succeed as a human being was told and/or shown to you, whether it be how to find a girl, find a guy, have sex, have a baby, find food, raise children, deal with family, argue with neighbors, care for the sick, elderly and dead, fight, work, sing, dance, play and get really loaded in order to hookup with the universe. (Side note: I've always loved the term "prehistory," which arrogantly implies that prior to the emergence of our culture, nothing happened.) Anyway, this state of affairs lasted for a long, long time. It was relatively stable. Peace on Earth, if you will. Then, with the advent of large-scale agriculture and the need for ever larger swathes of land to accommodate it, the tribal system collapsed and people began to live huddled together in towns, villages and cities. In short order, the priceless wisdom that taught us who we were and how we could live a happy life was forever lost to mankind. Which brings us to today. I don't believe that we became a neurotic and self-destructive species because we're born in sin, or otherwise flawed. I believe our fall from grace was simply a forgetting." -Chuck Lorre
  11. liktheangel

    liktheangel Active Member

    I don't understand the whole point of groups. I found what you wrote to be utter BS because then no one has a group. Just about every person on earth can have that conclusion about themselves. I've felt like I have never fit in my entire life and I really haven't. I've always been on the outside but so have a lot of other people. People have made careers out of exploiting the theme of the eternal loners (Morrissey and the The Smiths). I'm sure there are groups out there that you can be apart of if you want. What about this forum, aren't we a group?
  12. Vee

    Vee Active Member

    This is exactly what I speak of. The main GROUP in the USA right now is family. Either you are born into one or you are expected to get married and have children to create one.

    No actually, this is individuals acting kind like a group. This is not really a group.

    How many here have met each other in real life? How many people here would do for the others here as if they were family? The vast majority of users here are acquaintances at best.
  13. scaryforest

    scaryforest Banned Member

    this is why you can't find a group. you don't count a positive group or a neutral group as a group at all.
    you only see negative aspects of any given group, it so appears
  14. liktheangel

    liktheangel Active Member

    The above poster is right. How can people help you if you reject every reply, opinion and example. Do you have a counselor or therapist you can talk to about your problems? Do you have any support system (family,friends,romantic partner,etc)?

    I guess most people are lucky if they have one real friend and not just acquaintances, even family can betray. I think you have to find people and create your own group. There are over 7 billion people on the planet and I'm sure a couple of million feel like you. Start a blog or facebook page or Youtube profile. People here are supportive and act like a family.Some people come on here and this site is the only support and "family" they have.
  15. Vee

    Vee Active Member

    No, I do not have any support system. My family is either dead or wants nothing to do with me, and you have probably guessed from my tone that I have no friends.

    And I do not count online contacts as "real friends". Someone that replies to a blog is not a shoulder to cry on, not a hand to hold, not a hug to be given. It's just an empty bunch of bits from the ther that might not even really be human in the first place.

    There is actually a book that explains this well. http://www.amazon.com/Alone-Together-Expect-Technology-Other/dp/0465031463

    "Technology has become the architect of our intimacies. Online, we fall prey to the illusion of companionship, gathering thousands of Twitter and Facebook friends and confusing tweets and wall posts with authentic communication. But, as MIT technology and society specialist Sherry Turkle argues, this relentless connection leads to a new solitude. As technology ramps up, our emotional lives ramp down. Alone Together is the result of Turkle's nearly fifteen-year exploration of our lives on the digital terrain. Based on hundreds of interviews, it describes new unsettling relationships between friends, lovers, parents, and children, and new instabilities in how we understand privacy and community, intimacy, and solitude."

    And no, I do not reject everything, because nothing has been offered that makes a shred of sense.

    A man cannot walk into a group of women and be treated as an equal, it simply won't happen no matter how they act. A white person cannot walk into a group of black people and be treated as an equal, it won't happen either. But yet the act of me pointing this out is somehow viewed as "negative" when I see it as simple reality.

    For example, I was abused as a child. Physically, emotionally, mentally and sexually. But several times when I try to talk to women who have been abused or raped they ALL act like what I went through is less than what they did. I am from the start not seen as an equal.

    Explain to me how this is just being negative when it's what I keep having to face over and over and over when what I really want is to find one shred of something positive which I keep being shown does not exist.
  16. scaryforest

    scaryforest Banned Member

    you've just been unlucky in some experiences so to speak and learnt only negative things from them is all.

    is your zodiac sign leo btw? ;d
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2014
  17. Vee

    Vee Active Member

  18. scaryforest

    scaryforest Banned Member

    oo. i was nearly right! ace
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