Why??

[Syd]

(First of all, apologies for the language, but this bothers me quite a bit - so I hope it's understandable.) I have noticed a common trend on this board, and with suicidal people in general. People complain that they don't deserve to live because they're "abnormal" or "everyone hates me" or "I fail at life" etc.. Why say these things? Because other people drilled it into your heads.

Well, does it ever fucking occur to some of you that perhaps all these other people who bashed you your whole life are the ones who are wrong?? I mean, who the hell are these people to tell you you're a failure, dictate their "superior philosophy" to others, and act like douchebags merely because they've conformed to a cultural mainstream better than you have? Whoop-de-fucking-do, conforming doesn't mean someone is successful, in fact it doesn't mean jack shit.

A thousand years ago, if I called the world flat people would think I'm retarded, but does that make it true? The whole world can be wrong, but they're too busy stroking their own egos to realize it. The point is, each and everyone of you are humans just like the rest of us. Every human is born equal, period. Money, inherited family, fame, genes, and anything else someone is born with is worthless. If you didn't have to earn it yourself, why should I praise you and treat you like royalty? I shouldn't, and I won't.

I'm sick of self-righteous people trying to control others, no one has the right to tell you how to live your life, they can all fuck off as far as I'm concerned. Start standing up for yourselves, if you don't want to attend school, then don't. If you aren't interested in that job, then don't fucking apply. If you don't like your relatives or some of your friends, then leave them and go make new friends. If you want to go travel the world to see other cultures and lifestyles and meet new people, then earn some money and do so. There's a whole world out there, life isn't just about whatever culture or social norms or unwritten rules or closed society or family or group of peers or town or city or country or philosophy or religion or childhood dreams or anything else you limit yourself to in your existence.

Open your eyes and realize that your whole life, everything you hate is caused by other people, they have no right to restrain you or make you believe you're worth less than others. It's all bullshit. I just hope you guys realize that, life is precious and it's not worth throwing away because of other people, it sickens me that humans treat eachother like crap and expect everyone to fit into some predefined roles as if we're all robots with the same purposes and minds and ideas. Did Socrates just "go along" with what people told him to do, hell no he didn't, he did whatever the fuck he pleased, and spoke his mind. Who else were once considered "losers" or "fools" by others for talking and acting against the social majorities of their societies? Well let's see: Aristotle, Newton, Frederick Douglass, Columbus, Plato, Gandhi, Karl Marx, W.E.B. Dubois, John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, Archimedes, Galileo, Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, Sigmund Freud, Leon Trotsky, Kurt Grelling, and the list goes on..

Don't ever let others stop you from living YOUR life. It's your life, it's the only thing you'll ever own, you only get ONE. Whoever or whatever is holding you back, bullies, ex's, friends, parents, teachers, relatives, abusers, siblings, depression, anxiety, addiction, culture, school, employment, propaganda, money, poverty, anger, doubt, disease, low self-esteem, FIGHT BACK. Chances are, you're one of the people earth needs the most, who actually have the capacity to help others. Many of those who don't care about others continue living and multiplying and walking upon the backs of the unfortunate just to feel better about themselves. Those are the people who are the most corrupted by social disease, the ones who are destroying humanity.. but the irony is that many of them think they're gods, while those who are actually worth something feel like they're shit. The world is a sick place like that.. but don't believe people who tell you you're worthless... if you only knew..

 

[CursedSoul]

Well said...

 

[kindtosnails]

^ agreed

 

[Syd]

Also, I forgot to mention Abraham Lincoln. He fought clinical depression all his life. All our current mental health problems: depression, anxiety, phobias, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, hypochondria, etc.. all of these existed throughout time, the only difference is there were no medications or psychologists or doctors who knew how to treat it hundreds of years ago. If others could deal with it back then, surely we can now too. Be thankful for all we have in today's modern age, life is improving slowly, but it is getting better.

 

[Allo..]

Well said syd =D

 

[music_addict]

well, actually clinical depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. Although it is true that outside factors can and do cause it to get worst.
Also, one of the reasons im so depressed is my shyness. That is totally in my my own mind and not caused by others. Even really nice people i cant stand talking to, its not their fault its mine.
anyway, i could go on but i dont feel like it. It just seems to me that we cant just blame all our problems on others. Maybe a litttle more introspection is needed, eh?
btw, i DO believe people who say im worthless, because i know it in my heart to be absolutely true. I knew it since the day i was unlucky enough to be born

 

[Syd]

I never said depression wasn't caused by a chemical imbalance, rather, I'm implying that the chemical imbalances develop over time through our own negative thinking. Yes, there are some genetic differences between us all that allow some of us to be more prone to depression or anxiety than others, but are you trying to tell me you were born depressed?

Everything you experience from infancy, childhood, adolescence all heavily impacts your mental development. If you had been raised in a completely different society, different family, friends, etc. an entirely separate culture, you think you would still think the way you do now? Also, to be clear - I advocate personal responsibility, it's up to each individual to change, but part of that change is realizing that we've been allowing others to influence us from a young age. I'm not saying we should blame everyone else for our problems, I'm saying we should recognize that our problems are the result of how we react to others and our environment. It's about adjusting ourselves, not adjusting others.

 

[Wonderstuff]

That is really...wow. I never thought about it like that before :blink:

 

[Megazoid]

Some excellent point's Syd.

It's important to remember that when we are born we have no "real" emotion's but rather a simple "need" to survive. We learn emotion's through other's and build our own association's and connection's around these experience.

In theory we can "teach" ourself's to be depressed by simply recalling negative experiences.

Many people express depression by physical actions to strengthen the need for the "mind" to lock itself into a negative state. For example "cutting" is used as a physical representation of a mental state.

When we are at school we are asked to read out loud because the brain learn's better with experiencesn and feedback loop than we do with our thought's alone.

 

[nothing-]

I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think it's so 'black and white' for a lot of people. You can't just trivialize everyones problems into something they can just "fight back" at. I agree that you can't just sit there and feel sorry for yourself, though. You have to at least take an active approach at bettering your situation and yourself.

Myself, I've pretty recently come to terms with what is wrong with me. I've been researching on the net, and I've come to the conclusion that I suffer from moderate social anxiety-- a mentally crippling disorder. It's held me back a LOT through life. I considered myself a loser and worthless for a long time.

The thing is, after living with this for so long, and having finally come to realize that this is actually a disorder that can be overcome, I feel a lot better about it. I totally agree with you that you should FIGHT your problems. I could take the "stick my head in the sand" approach that a lot of people do, but I'm not ready to just throw in the towel yet.

 

[ealdc]

A lot of people on this board say they have been depressed for a loooong time. Myself, for example. It started when I was in grade 7. Over time it gets worse, at least, for me it has. Now it's so unbearable that I actually fantasize about my own death. I want help, I need help, I'm trying my best to get help, but... I can only do so much at the state I'm in. It will not cure itself overnight, and even a new way of thinking will not work.

To the people who have really hurt me - f**k them
To the people who judge me - f**k them
To my family who judges me - screw them

Yes, that does feel good, but I can't simply be healed with that way of thinking.

I find that those who are not actually "depressed" have that view on depression. It's a hard thing to explain to those who have not ever gone through it. I have too many people in my life who view depression in the way you are describing and, personally, it does not make me feel any better.

 

[Ziggy]

I used to think I was worthless... until I realised billions of bacteria absolutely depended upon me!

Joking aside the point I'm making is that whether you love it or hate it, life simply 'is'. If you ask "Why do I exist?" then why not ask "Why does a tree exist?", if you ask "Do I have any worth" then why not ask "Does a tree have any worth?". I like trees, i'd like to think I'm better than a tree, though I do agree it would be difficult to make a book out of me.

Now back to the bacteria again, I mean they really are stunningly interesting and amazing creatures and I'm covered in them! I guess that makes me interesting too... well it does to me, though I think you may take some convincing.

 

[Syd]

Believe me, I understand all too well.. I don't claim to be some hero who can just shrug aside anything, the fact is that I'm killing myself slowly through severe depression, anxiety, and isolation. I rarely "practice what I preach".. it's just that I have moments where I feel like breaking away from it all. It never happens.. just wishful thinking.. take it however you want.

 

[Syd]

Today was actually the first day I've eaten in 5 days.. I can't even motivate myself to buy and eat food at times. Don't make the mistake of assuming that I have everything under control just because I try to speak positively about things.

 

[make_me_bad]

Throughout every day, I experience euphoria followed by overwhelming hopelessness. When I try to sleep I hear voices, in the morning I wake up from beautiful dreams where I'm still around people that I love. Four months ago I was a high school dropout, fired from three jobs, no drivers license, no constructive areas of my life. Today I have a GED, a part-time position at a department store and I'm starting college in January. I have an Arizona drivers license. I've started taking wellbutrin for my depression and risperdall for my schizophrenia. I have therapists' numbers to call should I find the motivation. I'm involved with a girl and I have a reasonable number of friends.

I don't care. I'm not excited that I get to be normal, I don't want to fit in, and I'll be no more impressed with my own scholastic success than I've been with everyone else's. Doctor or janitor, social recluse or life of the party, my world is a horrible, cruel, pointless place.

My mother's side of the family has a long history of depression. I was abused as a child, physically, verbally, and mentally. I was bullied until high school. I was never allowed to be young. I was never allowed to enjoy myself. I was never allowed to experiement with life, to learn who I was, because everything I did was wrong. Everything I did resulted in a beating followed by a tormenting night of verbal abuse. After being a failure all night at home, I was a ****** or a loser the next day at school. There was no escape, there was no comfort.

Pain is all that I know, and pain is all that I am. There is no me. There was no time to build myself, to develop a unique character. There was no childhood. I cannot be myself and nobody can ever know me. I can only have social relationships based on my immitations of what I've seen in other people.

I can escape everything on a superficial level, but I will always hurt.

 

[ProzacDeathWish]

Hi Syd. I know this thread is old but I thought I'd post anyway. I am all for the kind of therapeutic, positive attitude, fuck the world, approach....if someone is able enough to use it.

Each person is unique in how they experience depression but the general parameters are similar,.........despair and a lack of motivation. Telling a person who completely lacks motivation to get up and get motivated is kind of like telling someone who is a double amputee to get out of their wheelchair and start doing wind-sprints.

Okay, I know that's not the perfect analogy but depression IS
a handicap and if it was simply a matter of willing our way out of it, I believe most of us would do it. I know I would. I mean why not ? It's easier than commiting suicide, isn't it ?

Too many people ( not neccessarily you ) see depression as a kind of character issue, that these sad, mopey people just lack the determination to
GET UP AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEIR PROBLEMS !!! Well, in some cases that is probably true.

Many people who reject these mental patients as being "weak" would never ridicule a person who had a physical handicap. Why ? Because to them, if the handicap is physical then it is REAL. Well all mental issues are housed within a REAL physical organ called the brain. Just like any other organ in the body it can be normal and healthy or it can be damaged and diseased.

Speaking of physical organs, if someone told a diabetic that the answer to their health problems could be found by becoming more assertive or changing their attitude in some way, they would probably laugh in that person's face. The diabetic understands that it is a physical organ that is failing them and only a medical solution will make a difference.

I believe that a similar principle applies to many people who have chronic mental problems. For many of us with mental issues, the cause of our problem is found within our brain chemistry ( not our thoughts ) and is purely an organic problem that can only be corrected when treated as a medical issue.

Speaking for myself, I cannot will myself to recovery. If that were possible, I would have done it long ago. I already use my will to resist my emotions every time I pull myself out of bed and go to work or when I engage in conversation with other people. Every day I choose to force myself to behave in ways that are neccessary to function.....BUT, none of these exercises change the way I FEEL inside.

I DO appreciate your pro-active approach to depression and I also acknowledge that there is no way that you can know the specific circumstances of every person who read your post. Your advice will apply to some and not to others.

I haven't closed my mind to the methods that you advocated. I am currently reading "Feeling Good" by David Burns. It is a how-to manual
for cognitive therapy.

PS, You may have already discovered that brevity is a virtue that I sorely lack. Also, I am very opinionated, I like to share my thoughts, I frequently get carried away with myself, and sometimes I don't know when to shut up.
Oh well, at least I can admit to my faults, and that's always a good thing.

Cheers.

 

[Syd]

Thanks for the reply, I understand that depression is a real mental handicap that is just as debilitating as physical problems. The original message was meant for myself just as much as anyone else, though. For some reason, people sometimes assume that I'm not depressed just because I'm trying to be positive. It is an entirely different thing to be consciously optimistic than to actually feel good. I do it because it's all I can do that's positive anymore, it seems.

I don't expect anyone who's depressed to be suddenly motivated, I just wanted everyone to know that their negative opinions of themselves are flawed, and I believe what I've said is the truth. That's just my opinion, I think many of the people who suffer from psychological problems are some of the most intelligent people I've known, and that the world needs more of these people. If I get criticized for being honest and trying to complement those who suffer, then so be it. I'm not saying it to make people feel better, I'm saying it because it's the truth. I think the majority of society is in the wrong, I do believe depression is caused by ignorant humans abusing other humans, and there is a lot of evidence backing up my beliefs as well.

Perhaps it could be communicated differently, but the message rings true. Also, for those of you who believe there's nothing you can do, and sit around waiting for a magic cure to be produced by scientists, that's your choice. I'm depressed & have severe anxiety, but I can at least acknowledge that to get out of this, I'm going to have to do it myself. Medicine/ prescriptions can help a little, therapy helps too, but most of the work is up to each of us. That's the truth, and if anyone here feels offended by it then forgive me - but I'm not going to take the stance that people are simply "born helpless and depressed" or that none of us can become mentally healthy again once we've become depressed. It's the depression that makes you think that way, and it's 100% bullshit.

 

[babycheeses]

I think you're right in that a lot of stigma surrounds a diagnosis of depression.

But I often find the attitude of those who think it's a cop out or that it makes us "wrong" are those who don't really understand it.

I think it's important, though, that we don't get carried away with this one aspect of ourselves. Sometimes it can get in the way of our lives and take over but it's not the only thing that's a part of who we are. I think that's fairly clear when reading through messages on this forum.

It's never easy with others and their perceptions but I also think sometimes we can be our own worst enemy.

 

[ProzacDeathWish]

Oh believe me Syd, I have never been passive about trying to correct my mental condition. I'm on the verge of turning 48 and I have been seeing both psychologists and psychiatrists since I was 19 years old.

As far a chemical treatment goes I am classified as "drug resistent". For some strange reason, nothing is able to "fix" what's wrong in my brain. Trazadone, Prozac, Paxil, Tofranil, Effexor, Buuspar, Cymbalta, Wellbutrin, Emsam, Ativan, etc just seem to bounce off of my brain like it was coated with Teflon. I've tried natural solutions such as Kava Kave, St. Johns Wort,
L-theanine. Nothing helped.

Personally, I want very much to feel better. No offense, but I have never needed anyone to convince me that it's better to feel good and enjoy life. Be it medicinal or thought manipulation, I have tried just about every therapy out there and am still searching for something to give me positive results.

All I can do is keeping slogging forward.

 

[ProzacDeathWish]

Oh believe me Syd, I have never been passive about trying to correct my mental condition. I'm on the verge of turning 48 and I have been seeing both psychologists and psychiatrists since I was 19 years old.

As far a chemical treatment goes I am classified as "drug resistent". For some strange reason, nothing is able to "fix" what's wrong in my brain. Trazadone, Prozac, Paxil, Tofranil, Effexor, Buuspar, Cymbalta, Wellbutrin, Emsam, Ativan, etc just seem to bounce off of my brain like it was coated with Teflon. I've tried natural solutions such as Kava Kave, St. Johns Wort,
L-theanine. Nothing helped.

Personally, I want very much to feel better. No offense, but I have never needed anyone to convince me that it's better to feel good and enjoy life. Be it medicinal or thought manipulation, I have tried just about every therapy out there and am still searching for something to give me positive results.

All I can do is keeping slogging forward.