Yet Another

Discussion in 'Welcome' started by Fading Mentality, Apr 19, 2010.

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  1. Fading Mentality

    Fading Mentality Active Member

    Hello people. Name is not important as I am not here to receive a pat on the back, a hug, or kind words of encouragement. I am a highly intelligent person with problems not unlike everyone else. Only possible difference here is that I am rapidly nearing my breaking point for the second time, only now I am older wiser and even more ashamed at my species. I am not considering suicide to gain attention or hurt anyone else, only to quiet what I know will drive me (and I am very serious here) crazy.

    I know some of you reading this are thinking suicide isn't very intelligent there buddy! I agree completely and if it was not for my deep thoughts and ability to learn just about anything with little effort I would not be typing this right now.

    I guess I'm obviously here for selfish reasons sadly. With all the potential that resides in me, once being an electronics technician on medical helicopters and was until within days ago working on my electrical engineering degree, hit for the countless time with the imaginary wall that keeps some of us behind our potential. I see those, that are important, but don't have half my potential rise to the top as I have fought my whole life just to keep a float. Add in the fact that about 90% of the worlds population sickens me or makes me want to do evil things due to greed, corruption, no consideration, etc ( I could go on for ever). Finally my life of living in a hole, digging partly out if not all the way out, and then falling back down (I know many can relate to this).

    Everyone has a breaking point mentally, my interest here is not to change my way of thinking as only I can do that and I have no interest in changing myself, only finding another persons insight that may help me push through as I know that if I cant make it through my final attempt at my place in this world there will be no other.

    PS: I am not religious and am not here, as I stated above, for cheer me up speeches so please don't waste your time with either, much appreciated.
     
  2. WildCherry

    WildCherry Staff Member ADMIN

    Just saying hi, and welcome to SF.
     
  3. Dennis

    Dennis Member

    Hmmm... it isn't clear to me exactly why you want to off yourself. Are you just tired of being alive? Aren't there things in your life that you enjoy enough to make you want to stick around? And what is it (can you be more specific?) about the 90% of the people in the world that 'sickens' you? Finally, when you say that you feel like you're about to go crazy, do you mean that literally? Do you have mental health issues?
    What I feel sometimes is frustrated by the amount of ignorance in the world but there's a solution for that: it's called 'education', and it seems to me that people like you have the ability, and perhaps a moral obligation, to do something to help remedy that. I'm also frustrated-- as an aside here-- by the common perspective that "life is a game, and money is how you keep score".
    Anyway, you seem like a very interesting person and I'm offering you my friendship if you're interested. Let's start a dialog (what do you say?), either here or through email (my address is drdammit@sbcglobal.net).
    Dennis

    "Life is too important to be taken seriously." - Oscar Wilde
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2010
  4. Fading Mentality

    Fading Mentality Active Member

    @ Dennis

    Absolutely I love intelligent conversation...

    I will try to go into detail in order of your reply to some extent as it is nearly impossible to fully express ones self with words efficiently let alone in taxing type. First I am not tired of being alive, there are things that I enjoy as no matter what anyone says they enjoy something. Its not that i'm giving up or I would not be here. Its more that I see many truths of this world that are so negative and harmful (would converse on these later if interested) that the pressure I receive has been gradually numbing my being to the point of lunacy in a literal context. Although this seems trivial the only logical reason this effects me so severely that I can derive from psychology is depth perception. I am an over analyzer and an aggressively deep thinker. I can only relate this to genius sydrome, although I am not one, where some are so intelligent they are autistic. In this case I may be too deep to cope. I understand this is illustration and hard to grasp to an extent.

    As for the 90% comment. To myself and many others people are just negative to put it politely. The ideas and actions that people bring about are so negative overall, I do realize the good in the world, that it is no wonder people want to end their lives or others let alone other actions like theft, mental imprisonment, financial imprisonment, the overall inconsiderate mentality in which society instills. I guess this is an issue of Nature vs. Nurture where so much of the darkness in the world is made by us yet no one cares enough to change this. Granted some try but some is not enough. An opinion that I share with others about the greatest evils we have created is that Religion and the Monetary system are the main threats to human existence. So what makes me so ill about the 90% is that some of this percentage holds others down (with varying degrees) without no remorse, while the others don't do anything about it. Again I can see how this may be worded to seem trivial but I am only scratching the surface of the thought and I have tried many of times to help right, correct, or enlighten others to be cast as to bad person a vast majority of the time. Very much like Socrates to some extents.

    I do feel I am losing it as the more I research, study, observe, and live, I come to realize how much I do not belong in this world. Not in a sense of death but maybe in mentality or spirituality if you want to label it that way. To be so damaged in the feeling aspect of emotions that I am numb but still with it in a logical manner is a very dangerous and unsettling place for myself. I sense myself slipping more with age as well as my ability to check myself mentally weakens the more punishment I take. At thirty years old it is very hard for me to visualize myself, if nothing changes, as an old man.

    I do not have health or mental issues. Although I was very troubled as a child/teenager I grew out of it and don't see anything from child hood that would harm my judgment as an adult. The only thing that runs in my family is alcoholism which I do not have as I rarely drink and when I do 2-4 beers is plenty in a night for me to be satisfied. It is interesting to me that as I am intelligent, and wise in aspects, yet for what ever cosmic reason am forced to be where I am (interesting story for later discussion on this one involving an astronomical reader/ wisest person i've ever met, no hoax, this guy read me before he ever spoke with me and knew things only one would know about themselves) in this looping trend of bait and tease in life in most every aspect.

    Overall from what I have read on other peoples post I seem to be at the edge for very different reasons, which seem to look petty as some people do have serious conflicts in their lives. I would say I am a fixer who has been so damaged that I would like to destroy instead, yet intelligent enough to see another solution only to know the outcome is more damage, let the cycle continue and there in you have the definition of insanity expounded to include all actions metaphorically speaking. No matter what runs through my head to truly explain the thoughts in my head I don't feel I could truly portray my suicidal reasons as I can't even prove philosophically to you that I exist.

    I would like to know of what brought you to this site though as I would like to find and help others find the mental brace that we have either lost or has been broken.

    If anything was too vague I would be more than willing to expound on one topic at a time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2010
  5. Dennis

    Dennis Member

    No flattery intended, but I'd say that you're definitely a genius... but I guess you don't want to be called that. Anyway, there is a lot to think about in your post and I want to be sure and give it the attention it deserves. That'll have to wait until tomorrow, unfortunately, since I'm way overdue to hit the sack right now. I know you're not looking for a pat on the back, but I have to say one thing before I go: intelligence like yours is more rare than one might wish and, especially since I'm somewhat isolated at present, I'm very glad to have made your acquaintance and that you're willing to interact with me.

    Dennis
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2010
  6. Fading Mentality

    Fading Mentality Active Member

    Absolutely, take your time. I look forward to the mental challenges we may present ourselves and hopefully some insights into our problems. I realize that speaking may be all that we need, and it is hard to bring up subjects like this to our friends and family as we do not wish to destroy those relationships. Especially since I only surround myself by insightful people this broken aspect of myself would truly diminish if not obliterate these relationships as I would imagine could be said for all in this position. If you would like to explain your situation I would be honored to discuss my opinions on your affairs as well. Just a fair warning that I am blunt and to the point but never intend to harm so I come off as harsh at times when my words are read instead of heard if you can relate. I look forward to further discussions and I feel lucky to have found someone to speak with (especially on the same day posted) in a deeper sense than just doom and gloom.
     
  7. Dennis

    Dennis Member

    Well, here I am again. I didn't sleep much, or well, but one thing that happened is that as I was trying to fall asleep I was thinking about your situation, and kept coming back to what's very basic, which is that, despite your intellectual conundrum, I would consider you a very lucky person: 30 years old, in good health, articulate, educated and intelligent. It would be very sad if you really ended your life and-- I hope this doesn't irk you-- I have a lot of free time on my hands these days (I've been out of work, and have isolated myself from friends and family, as much as possible, the last six months), so I've decided to make you into a kind of project-- not meaning to objectify you or anything, nor to be condescending. It will do me good, selfishly speaking, if only because I will feel myself involved in something worthwhile, and also because, like you, I definitely enjoy intelligent conversation. Of course, everyone has their boundaries, and I only have an inkling of what yours are so you'll have to tell me when I cross them (I won't take offense).
    It would help, I think, if I could know your name; you're right that names don't really matter ("I can think of a word for myself, but no name" -S. Phillips), but this feels personal, and I'd like to be able to call you something other than 'fading mentality'. What do you say? Also, I'm assuming that you're male: that makes a difference to me psychologically so, if you're not, please let me know.
    This is a two-way street of course, and you said you're interested in my circumstances (I guess it'd be strange if you wanted to start conversing with me and weren't... it's not like I'm your doctor or anything, just a friend). In that regard, I will answer, very gladly, any question that you put to me.
    On both sides of the equation, what I can promise you is respect and honesty (I may say things you don't like). I can also promise that I will listen to what you say very carefully.

    You wrote, "...it is nearly impossible to fully express ones self with words efficiently let alone in taxing type." Amen to that. I believe that all of us are to some extent 'alone in our heads'... it would be hell without communication, but language, of course, does have its limits, and I've found in my life that the deeper the subject is, the more likely it is that one is going to be misunderstood.

    "First I am not tired of being alive, there are things that I enjoy as no matter what anyone says they enjoy something. Its not that I'm giving up or I would not be here. Its more that I see many truths of this world that are so negative and harmful..."

    That's the curse of consciousness, especially with those of high intelligence. Most, if not all, people have a kind of defense system in place, regarding all the suffering around them and in the world as a whole... empathy is crucial, needless to say, but without limits, it can be a crushing burden. So I'm wondering if it might not be the case that your defense system is simply being overwhelmed by the onslaught of negativity coming at you from your perceptions of the world and the general state of mankind, being amplified by the fact of your being a deep thinker. Repression isn't as easy when you're immersing yourself in the reality of whatever it is about which you might want to subject yourself to some repression. I also think that it's crucial to have distractions at hand, whatever they may be, whenever this existential angst (?) is unbearable.

    "Although this seems trivial the only logical reason this effects me so severely that I can derive from psychology is depth perception. I am an over analyzer and an aggressively deep thinker. I can only relate this to genius syndrome, although I am not one, where some are so intelligent they are autistic. In this case I may be too deep to cope. I understand this is illustration and hard to grasp to an extent.
    (would converse on these later if interested) that the pressure I receive has been gradually numbing my being to the point of lunacy in a literal context."

    Again, I'm not understanding what you mean by 'lunacy'. Are you having irrational thoughts, for example? I doubt it, but tell me. I don't want to harp on the 'mental health issues' question, but if it is a question, I'd like to know about it. That aside (and you did answer my query about that in the negative, so I probably should drop it), you say that the pressure you've received has been numbing you, meaning blunting your emotions, I assume (as a defense mechanism, as per the above), how far does that go? Sometimes, regarding ones emotions, it's a package deal, so to speak, so that numbing yourself from what is painful can also numb you from what is pleasurable. Your situation, absent such blunting, is Promethean, I'm thinking. Prometheus was the 'Titan god of forethought and insight', entrusted with the task of forming mankind out of clay. His attempts to better the lives of man brought him into conflict with Zeus. When Zeus withheld fire, he stole it from heaven and delivered it to mortal kind hidden inside a fennel-stalk. As punishment for this rebellious act, Prometheus was bound to a stake on Mount Kaukasos where an eagle was set to feed upon his ever-regenerating liver or, some say, heart (generations later the great hero Herakles came along and released the old Titan from his torture).

    "As for the 90% comment. To myself and many others people are just negative to put it politely. The ideas and actions that people bring about are so negative overall..."

    Sure, and the saying may be apt here that 'ignorance is bliss'. I think that many people don't have the sort of difficulty that you have simply because they aren't capable of heightened consciousness.

    "I do realize the good in the world, but it is no wonder people want to end their lives or others let alone other actions like theft, mental imprisonment, financial imprisonment, the overall inconsiderate mentality in which society instills. I guess this is an issue of Nature vs. Nurture where so much of the darkness in the world is made by us yet no one cares enough to change this. Granted some try but some is not enough."

    Amen.

    "An opinion that I share with others about the greatest evils we have created is that Religion and the Monetary system are the main threats to human existence."

    I completely agree with you on that score, and it doesn't really require a great deal of reflection on history and where it has brought us, to demonstrate that (as uncomfortable as that may be for some... religious zealots and bankers <grin>?). I generally don't try to talk people out of their religious ideas, but that's only because without their 'crutch', they really might fall down and hurt themselves, so to speak. But, again, that religion is harmful to mankind is indisputable, in my opinion. Think of the 'dark ages', for example, things like the Inquisition and the Crusades... and, today, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as well as our problem with the Muslims 'holy war' against what they consider to be infidels (like you and I). And, yes, the monetary system or, you could say, capitalism is not only an evil, rewarding greed and selfishness and disincentivizing cooperation (exalting competition to an unhealthy degree) but threatens, I would argue, not only humankind but the well-being of the planet as a whole.

    "So what makes me so ill about the 90% is that some of this percentage holds others down (with varying degrees) without no remorse, while the others don't do anything about it. Again I can see how this may be worded to seem trivial but I am only scratching the surface of the thought and I have tried many of times to help right, correct, or enlighten others to be cast as a bad person a vast majority of the time. Very much like Socrates to some extent."

    Attempting to enlighten the ignorant, as with Socrates (executed for opposing the idea of gods, of course), is as likely as not going to rouse ire instead of gratitude.

    "I do feel I am losing it as the more I research, study, observe, and live, I come to realize how much I do not belong in this world. Not in a sense of death but maybe in mentality or spirituality if you want to label it that way. To be so damaged in the feeling aspect of emotions that I am numb but still with it in a logical manner is a very dangerous and unsettling place for myself. I sense myself slipping more with age as well as my ability to check myself mentally weakens the more punishment I take."

    Same theme and, again, I understand where you're coming from (or believe that I do).

    "At thirty years old it is very hard for me to visualize myself, if nothing changes, as an old man."

    I'm 56 (old enough to be your dad <LOL>), and I'm not sure how much older I want to get even if my present difficulties are somehow resolved. It's very likely that when I do die, it'll be by my own hands, and I do have the means to carry through that out without any pain or violence or undue infliction of pain on others (i.e., guilt)... there is a way to commit suicide that is painless and that will not very likely be ruled as a suicide by your average coroner. Reading the rules for this forum, though, I know I can't really talk about that here.

    "Although I was very troubled as a child/teenager I grew out of it and don't see anything from childhood that would harm my judgment as an adult. The only thing that runs in my family is alcoholism which I do not have as I rarely drink and when I do 2-4 beers is plenty in a night for me to be satisfied."

    Okay, there's a question you've saved me from having to ask. I had kind of a screwy childhood, but it wasn't all that bad, and it's far enough in the past now that I can say it doesn't really have any impact on me (as far as I can tell).

    "It is interesting to me that as I am intelligent, and wise in aspects, yet for what ever cosmic reason am forced to be where I am (interesting story for later discussion on this one involving an astronomical reader/ wisest person i've ever met, no hoax, this guy read me before he ever spoke with me and knew things only one would know about themselves)..."

    That sounds very interesting, but did you mean 'astrological'? Despite my contempt, generally speaking, for religion, I am very open to ideas that you might call supernatural, not least of all because of my own history, including precognition and out-of-body experiences. A good topic for a future conversation, I'd say.

    "No matter what runs through my head to truly explain the thoughts in my head I don't feel I could truly portray my suicidal reasons as I can't even prove philosophically to you that I exist."

    Are you a complete subjectivist, or just stating, as David Hume argued, that nothing can be demonstrated by reason alone (as per his most famous book, "The Critique of Pure Reason")... he demonstrates, without refute to this very day, that reason/logic is insufficient in and of itself to ascertain the truth of any statement. He does end up saying, though, things like: "Even though I have no reason to believe the sun will rise in the morning, I nonetheless expect that it will." One problem with (complete) subjectivism is that it requires the self-contradictory statement that "no statement is true". We can discuss this further if you like. Epistemology is the mother of all sciences, as they say, and something in which I'm very interested.

    "I would like to know of what brought you to this site"

    A subject for another day, probably (but I do have an introduction in the 'welcome' section here, titled "everything doesn't get better" that can give you some basic facts.

    "I would like to find and help others find the mental brace that we have either lost or has been broken."

    Same here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2010
  8. Dennis

    Dennis Member

    "Reason is a wonderful servant and a terrible master." -Goethe
     
  9. Fading Mentality

    Fading Mentality Active Member

    First off I can see that we will have, hopefully, many more conversations as we are kindred spirits with beliefs along the same lines as well as values from what I can tell so far. My name is John Adams by the way, and yes I am related to John and John Q. Adams oddly enough. That will also answer your question as to my sex obviously. I would also like to extend my gratitude for putting thought into what I have written as well as expressing your own as so few actually attempt true contact with others.

    I read your introduction and I must say with what I have learned of the physical aspect of psychology (human brain) that I can truly imagine the difficulties associated with brain damage. With consideration to the forming or recalling of memories both old and new I understand how easily the process can be damaged and having personally seen people stuck in loops as they can only recall information pre-injury as well as being limited to minutes or hours of memory recall to present time. Though in a dark dry comic text I would say I would rather lose my mind first than my body as then you don't have the ability to realize emotion. As to the separation of friends and family I see how I am heading toward a similar position. I have experienced how fake even those you thought were true can be on several occasions which is why I can now count my friends on one hand. Did you withdraw from your friends to protect the damage you could cause them? When it comes to family I have one of the most selfish and money driven ones I know of in which I am lucky enough to have a father who is the only one not keen to the same ideals. Which makes me curious as to if your family has disregarded you or if you have receded in an attempt to save some form of face, please correct me if I am off in either question as I am just throwing out what strikes me first.

    Our discussions will probably, at least on my side, be multi-directional as I am one of those people who can find it hard to stay on a single thought as I cannot speak or type as fast as my mind works.

    Back to your recent reply though:

    I do agree with the fact that I am very lucky in aspects of my being, though some of the greatest gifts can become the greatest curses as well which is hard for me to wrap my head around due to the fact that good is not evil. I find it amusing that I am someones project though as I am a fixer and will probably be a complex project. Good luck to both of us in this matter!

    "So I'm wondering if it might not be the case that your defense system is simply being overwhelmed by the onslaught of negativity coming at you from your perceptions of the world and the general state of mankind, being amplified by the fact of your being a deep thinker.

    -This is a very accurate understanding. I realize this as well, what escapes me is the tool to fix the buffer as one is not educated on the way to handle emotions in this world. In a logical mind it is hard to fabricate and repair that which is not physical, very much like pondering quantum mechanics.

    "Again, I'm not understanding what you mean by 'lunacy'."

    -Let me try to explain it this way. I use lunacy in an almost abstract sense. I do not know if you have ever used LSD but the most accurate example I can give is this: When having a self realization trip, or diving into your self to the point of reaching a point in which you cannot come back. I think that I have acquired a state of mind or thought process that is outside my range of explanation, not from the drugs but within my head. I often analyze all things including myself which is a very scary thing to do the deeper you dig. Don't let the drug experimentation lead you to think anything i'm experiencing now is related to that as I experimented with LSD for the mental aspects not to escape or party value. I still don't think I am explaining this well. How about this: You can most likely judge how far out from a shore you could swim while still being able to make it back safely I would gather. I think with the depth at which I pry along with the outside pressures of the world (negative), am right at the point in which I can't return. So I cannot answer if I am having irrational thoughts as if I have passed this line in any context how would I know since per the example I already drowned. Maybe not at this exact moment but it would be apparent that I will not reach the shore. I hope this makes sense.

    "Sure, and the saying may be apt here that 'ignorance is bliss'."

    -I love that term. It is so true for the person(s) involved but so detrimental to those whom are not ignorant.

    "Attempting to enlighten the ignorant, as with Socrates (executed for opposing the idea of gods, of course), is as likely as not going to rouse ire instead of gratitude. "

    -Actually in his argument to the parliament he did argue that he believed in the gods as the reason he pursued his enlightening was was due to what an oracle spoke to him stating that he was the wisest of men. He wanted to disprove that since I gather one would find this hard to believe of them self. He was sentenced to death in the end, as in that time the parliament gave a sentence as did the accused in which the choice of either was voted on and they presented death, while he presented a salary for his teachings and honor/respect. I would think they picked death so that he would pick something more logical to their standards but he felt he had done nothing wrong as I would agree. In Socrates case they charged him with criminal meddling, making the weaker argument defeat the stronger, and teaching others to follow his example. Very interesting time to live in, i'm sure I would be next in line if I lived in that time!

    "That sounds very interesting, but did you mean 'astrological'?"

    -Yes I did, thanks for correcting that. Has to due with star reading essentially. Amazing the amount of accuracy in it not just because you would like to believe it is but being a critical thinker, Doug knocked my head for a loop with the information he could provide about you that you may know, some you wont know, without having picked your brain for leads. Since it seems you are interested in this we'll have to set aside some time to speak on this matter.

    "Are you a complete subjectivist..."

    -Actually no, there may be some rare occasions that I can relate to this tenet but I fall more along the lines of an philosophical realist (Out of wiki as my definition would be harder to articulate "Contemporary philosophical realism is the belief in a reality that is completely ontologically independent of our conceptual schemes, linguistic practices, beliefs, etc. Philosophers who profess realism also typically believe that truth consists in a belief's correspondence to reality. We may speak of realism with respect to other minds, the past, the future, universals, mathematical entities (such as natural numbers), moral categories, the material world, or even thought. Realists tend to believe that whatever we believe now is only an approximation of reality and that every new observation brings us closer to understanding reality.") Though it is hard to say what one is classified as since there is no perfect mold, I am me, no other and no term can represent this.






    Not sure what you would like to discuss next, pick anything you feel important at the time involving any topic as I value all context. If I am the project I am intrigued as to the method you wish to pursue. If you would like to speak of your own thoughts i'd be just as willing to give you my input on any thoughts you would like to discuss. I don't want to be the on the couch all the time as I like to analyze, as stated before, as well.
     
  10. Fading Mentality

    Fading Mentality Active Member

    The mind thought upon without direction finds timeless reality as the conception. -John Adams

    Interesting discussion HERE from a topic I have interest in and made a thread on, would like to hear your stance as well if you don't mind. Some people are so damaged they cannot even attempt to perceive others thoughts.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2010
  11. Daze

    Daze New Member

    Hello..

    I'm just here to say that I've read your introduction on here aswell as your posts you've made so far and that I really could relate to a lot of it. While I'd really love to exchange thoughts on this and discuss about related topics (since it's an incredibly rare feeling for me to find someone I can really relate to), I'm sad to say that I'm limited by my knowledge of the english langauge. While I can follow through most of your text with some effort I'd just end up struggling when trying to express myself and contributing anything of similar, intellectual worth. While I'd love to chat, I'm afraid we couldn't cross those language-based borders that divide us from understanding each other at a certain point.

    I've never managed to find understanding on my thoughts and views concerning society, life and so on within the borders of my own language (at least not sufficient for me) and in my desperation I've begun to search all over the internet for a way to find comforting conversation. Might be personal preference, but there just seem to be slightly differences in looking upon life spread among the world's cultures after all, even though I can't judge it due to lack of personal experience. I've even started to learn Chinese in a desperate attempt to be able to communicate to a wider spectrum of humen, hence increasing the chances of finding suitable chat-contacts.

    Now that I think about it it feels like there is no point to the lines I write on here, but I just felt like expressing that I'm feeling slightly better now, knowing that I seem to be not entirely alone with my reflections upon life, after all. And maybe I'm led by a small hope, that there could be some way of staying in touch after all, even if it's not a way of deepest, intellectual understanding.

    Much love and take care
     
  12. Fading Mentality

    Fading Mentality Active Member

    @Daze

    I think from what you have written that you speak/write English just fine. We are not here to impress anyone with our vocabulary or insightful ability. We are here because we know there is something broken that may cause us to end our own lives. I would encourage you to join us if you wish as we are not here to judge only enlighten.

    "I've never managed to find understanding on my thoughts and views concerning society, life and so on within the borders of my own language (at least not sufficient for me) and in my desperation I've begun to search all over the internet for a way to find comforting conversation."

    -You have found your conversation if you give it a chance. To truly understand oneself is, in my opinion, one of the greatest and scariest challenges I can think of. If you would like to discuss with us any of your thoughts don't hesitate!

    "I've even started to learn Chinese in a desperate attempt to be able to communicate to a wider spectrum of humen, hence increasing the chances of finding suitable chat-contacts."

    -I commend you in your ability to learn another language as one is more than enough for me to handle. The only thing I would change is the desperation to communicate to determination to communicate.

    "Now that I think about it it feels like there is no point to the lines I write on here, but I just felt like expressing that I'm feeling slightly better now, knowing that I seem to be not entirely alone with my reflections upon life, after all. And maybe I'm led by a small hope, that there could be some way of staying in touch after all, even if it's not a way of deepest, intellectual understanding."

    -Nothing that you think, say, or feel is ever pointless. I hope you remain here as maybe it is you that enlightens another and saves a life as I know I hope to save my own and any others I cross paths with, suicidal or not!
     
  13. Dennis

    Dennis Member

    Well John, my friend, I'm going to repeat myself (something I do a lot of these days, or so I'm told <grin>) and let you know how glad I am to have made your acquaintance... kindred spirits, indeed. That's very cool about your ancestry, btw (John and John Q). When I was a boy, my great grandfather use to tell me that we were descendants of Simon Lord Lovat (Scotland)... but his account of Simon Lord Lovat, as someone who was beheaded by Mary Queen of Scots ('bloody Mary') complete with the idea that his head missed the basket and rolled to the foot of the Queen's carriage "staring up at her" ("and to this very day", he would say, "on a quiet night, you can sometimes hear the sound of his head rolling across the village square"), doesn't really jive with what I later discovered to be the truth about this guy (quite a rascal, for one thing).

    Regarding brain damage, that's my only real problem or at least the only one that makes me suicidal (something I'm not ruling out... I have good days and bad days). I have no problem whatsoever with long-term memory, just short and mid-term. If you've ever seen the movie "Memento", you'll have some idea what it feels like. I didn't care much for that movie when I first saw it (very disjointed and confusing, with things seeming to happen out of sequence, f.e.)... but I've seen it two or three times lately and it really does a pretty decent job of giving one a feeling for what it's like to have such a problem. Fortunately, my problem isn't as serious as the main character's, but it is confusing and disorienting... and, especially at first, downright frightening (like an episode of the Twilight Zone or something). If I can get used to it, I'll probably be around for a while. We'll see, I guess. Anyway, my 'problem' is what has caused me to separate myself from friends and family. I know that they want to help me (I don't need their pity, though, which is what I sense from some of them), but there's really nothing they can do. And real-time conversation is difficult for me (unless it's fairly short), because I'll forget what was said even just a few minutes before. Writing is different, as with having this dialog (thanks again) with you because I can always go back and read what was said before. I'll be saving this conversation on my computer (not that I don't trust this forum, but I've seen posts disappear elsewhere before), just for that reason. I'll probably end up with something the size of a book! That's how I deal with everyday life too, by writing notes to myself all the time (like "you're brother called you today, and says he's going to bring you some pot" or "you watered the plants on Friday" or "you already got the mail"... you get the idea). Some memories stick or I'd be totally lost, but some don't.

    So, and I think this important, why are you separating yourself (or see yourself headed in that direction) from your friends and family? Is it because they don't understand you? If so, maybe you just need some new friends <grin>. You say you can count your friends on one hand... that's the case with me too, with most people I guess, if you're talking about real friendship. I've never been much of a party person and shallow conversation just really doesn't cut it with me.

    You said, "Our discussions will probably, at least on my side, be multi-directional as I am one of those people who can find it hard to stay on a single thought as I cannot speak or type as fast as my mind works."

    Understood, and what I said about making a project out of you is probably misleading. It's that problem with words, again... imperfect vessels, you know.

    "I do agree with the fact that I am very lucky in aspects of my being, though some of the greatest gifts can become the greatest curses as well which is hard for me to wrap my head around due to the fact that good is not evil. I find it amusing that I am someones project though as I am a fixer and will probably be a complex project. Good luck to both of us in this matter!"

    LOL!!! My guess is that it'll be worthwhile for both of us and it doesn't surprise me that you're a kind of fixer (it's amazing how much we have in common, much more than I thought even when I read your first post and said to myself, "Now, here is an interesting dude").

    "... what escapes me is the tool to fix the buffer as one is not educated on the way to handle emotions in this world. In a logical mind it is hard to fabricate and repair that which is not physical, very much like pondering quantum mechanics."

    Well said. I actually think I may be of help to you in that regard (your problem is one that I've had to deal with for most of my life... I don't think I really got a handle on it until I was well into my 40's).

    "Let me try to explain it this way. I use lunacy in an almost abstract sense. I do not know if you have ever used LSD but the most accurate example I can give is this: When having a self realization trip, or diving into yourself to the point of reaching a point in which you cannot come back."

    It's a scary feeling, and pretty much describes my second acid trip (I'm an original hippie, I should tell you). My first one was great (wowee!), probably because I was with a friend and didn't do a lot of introspection or deep thinking... we spent most of our time laughing. My second one was the opposite. I'd say that it helped me understand a lot that I hadn't previously, but at that age (16), it was just a little more than I needed to know, if you get my drift. Hallucinogenics are making a comeback these days (even being used to treat some forms of depression, I read somewhere), which I think is fine but I do worry when I hear about kids messing with it. I'd say they're playing with fire. I had a friend, again when I was a teen, named Adam who took an LSD trip and, I guess you would say, never came back... it was very sad.

    "I think that I have acquired a state of mind or thought process that is outside my range of explanation, not from the drugs but within my head."

    I know what you're talking about. You really don't need LSD or Peyote or Mushrooms, etc., to get from here to there... to break down that barrier between consciousness and what is normally unconscious. Some people are better at it than others. These days, marijuana is sufficient for me to induce such a state (and I like it).

    "I often analyze all things including myself which is a very scary thing to do the deeper you dig."

    Scary it can be, but I'm confident, just because of your intelligence, that you'll be able to get beyond that and assimilate the darker parts of yourself into consciousness (as much as you want to, I mean). I'll have more to say about that sometime.

    "Actually in his argument to the parliament he did argue that he believed in the gods as the reason he pursued his enlightening was was due to what an oracle spoke to him stating that he was the wisest of men. He wanted to disprove that since I gather one would find this hard to believe of them self. He was sentenced to death in the end, as in that time the parliament gave a sentence as did the accused in which the choice of either was voted on and they presented death, while he presented a salary for his teachings and honor/respect. I would think they picked death so that he would pick something more logical to their standards but he felt he had done nothing wrong as I would agree. In Socrates case they charged him with criminal meddling, making the weaker argument defeat the stronger, and teaching others to follow his example. Very interesting time to live in, I'm sure I would be next in line if I lived in that time!"

    Thanks for the correction. I'm a little rusty on my Plato and even when I wasn't, I'll admit to just skimming over a lot of what he wrote (he can be pretty long-winded sometimes... I keep wanting to say, "get to the point already").

    "[Are you a complete subjectivist]..."-Actually no, there may be some rare occasions that I can relate to this tenet but I fall more along the lines of an philosophical realist (Out of wiki as my definition would be harder to articulate "Contemporary philosophical realism is the belief in a reality that is completely ontologically independent of our conceptual schemes, linguistic practices, beliefs, etc. Philosophers who profess realism also typically believe that truth consists in a belief's correspondence to reality. We may speak of realism with respect to other minds, the past, the future, universals, mathematical entities (such as natural numbers), moral categories, the material world, or even thought. Realists tend to believe that whatever we believe now is only an approximation of reality and that every new observation brings us closer to understanding reality.") Though it is hard to say what one is classified as since there is no perfect mold, I am me, no other and no term can represent this."

    We're on exactly the same page, then, when it comes to epistemology. I've had more debates with subjectivists than I care to remember and I think they're wacky, to be blunt. Of course it's true that, ultimately, all experience is subjective. What else? Our eyes, for example, are not after all little windows through which our naked soul peers out upon the world. What we have is a kind of interior landscape, a microcosm of the macrocosm, the trick being to try and make the two correspond as much as possible (thereby to get along in the world, as with science). The macrocosm ( or 'objective reality') will help us there, of course; believe that you can fly, for example, then see what happens when you jump off the roof <LOL>. Subjectivists, I think, have hit upon the idea that all experience is subjective (and it is, of course) and are so impressed with their discovery that they take it to ridiculous (and eventually self-contradictory) lengths. Statements like "there is no objective reality" or "truth is relative" are pet peeves of mine.

    Well, I think I'll go get something to eat. I may be back in a while, I don't know. Talk to you soon, my friend.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2010
  14. Dennis

    Dennis Member

    A little Plato

    From Phaedo, Socrates argument against what I would call subjectivism:

    "Summon me then, he [Socrates] said, and I will be your Iolaus until the sun goes down.
    I summon you rather, I said, not as Heracles summoning Iolaus, but as Iolaus might summon Heracles.
    That will be all the same, he said. But first let us take care that we avoid a danger.
    And what is that? I said.
    The danger of becoming misologists, he replied, which is one of the very worst things that can happen to us. For as there are misanthropists or haters of men, there are also misologists or haters of ideas, and both spring from the same cause, which is ignorance of the world. Misanthropy arises from the too great
    confidence of inexperience; you trust a man and think him altogether true and good and faithful, and then in a little while he turns out to be false and knavish; and then another and another, and when this has happened several times to a man, especially within the circle of his most trusted friends, as he deems them, and he has often quarreled with them, he at last hates all men, and believes that no one has any good in him at all. I dare say that you must have observed this.
    Yes, I said.
    And is not this discreditable? The reason is that a man, having to deal with other men, has no knowledge of them; for if he had knowledge he would have known the true state of the case, that few are the good and few the evil, and that the great majority are in the interval between them.
    How do you mean? I said.
    I mean, he replied, as you might say of the very large and very small, that nothing is more uncommon than a very large or a very small man; and this applies generally to all extremes, whether of great and small, or swift and slow, or fair and foul, or black and white: and whether the instances you select be men or dogs or anything else, few are the extremes, but many are in the mean between them. Did you never observe this?
    Yes, I said, I have.
    And do you not imagine, he said, that if there were a competition of evil, the first in evil would be found to be very few?
    Yes, that is very likely, I said.
    Yes, that is very likely, he replied; not that in this respect arguments are like men-there I was led on by you to say more than I had intended; but the point of comparison was that when a simple man who has no skill in dialectics believes an argument to be true which he afterwards imagines to be false, whether really false or not, and then another and another, he has no longer any faith left, and great disputers, as you know, come to think, at last that they have grown to
    be the wisest of mankind; for they alone perceive the utter unsoundness and instability of all arguments, or, indeed, of all things, which, like the currents in the Euripus, are going up and down in never-ceasing ebb and flow.
    That is quite true, I said.
    Yes, Phaedo, he replied, and very melancholy too, if there be such a thing as truth or certainty or power of knowing at all, that a man should have lighted upon some argument or other which at first seemed true and then turned out to be false, and instead of blaming himself and his own want of wit, because he is annoyed, should at last be too glad to transfer the blame from himself to arguments in general; and forever afterwards should hate and revile them, and
    lose the truth and knowledge of existence.
    Yes, indeed, I said; that is very melancholy.
    Let us, then, in the first place, he said, be careful of admitting into our souls the notion that there is no truth or health or soundness in any arguments at all; but let us rather say that there is as yet no health in us, and that we must quit ourselves like men and do our best to gain health-you and all other men with a view to the whole of your future life, and I myself with a view to death."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2010
  15. Dennis

    Dennis Member

    I'm having trouble here. Sorry.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2010
  16. Dennis

    Dennis Member

    arg... I need to make a note for myself, I guess
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2010
  17. Dennis

    Dennis Member

    shit...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2010
  18. Dennis

    Dennis Member

    Now I'm going to check out the link you gave me: "Interesting discussion here from a topic I have interest in and made a thread on, would like to hear your stance as well if you don't mind. Some people are so damaged they cannot even attempt to perceive others thoughts."
    Actually, I'm going to go have a beer and a couple of cigarettes first <g>.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2010
  19. Dennis

    Dennis Member

    my last screw up, i swear
     
  20. Fading Mentality

    Fading Mentality Active Member

    Hehe I read your initial responses, checked on my thread, came back, and holy crap 17 replies out of no where! Did you edit the philosophical discussion out? Oh please don't mention smokes, I just quit a month ago and with all that's going on now I am very tempted to buy a pack. Just kidding, it doesn't bother me anymore and allows for more funds to go into the true herb! Speaking of, I follow all the medical aspects, and political for that matter, of marijuana and was wondering if it helps your memory at all. I do know that THC slows down the signal process along neurons so I am curious if that allows for better memory recollection that you or others have noticed? I wish they would just legalize it as there is much to be gained in several aspects of the drug, even financially, which makes me wonder why it still isn't legal unless the tobacco company lobbyists are the square cog. What is your flavor of beer as well? Myself I go for anything dark, typically stouts, ports, and Belgium ales. My staple beer is Fat Tire and 1554 from New Belgium Brewery here in Colorado. If you say a light beer I'm not sure if I can handle it haha.
     
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