Ideas & Opinions Thought of an interesting study

[Bleakjuju_bean]

Hi all,

So I was thinking of my kitten that passed away from a heart murmur (several years ago), and the reason I got the kitten was because of the way it behaved been a lot less active and liking lots of cuddles. This behaviour was from the heart murmur.

So I did some research on scientific studies for correlation between heart disease and depression and all the studies I found were how many people with heart disease have depression (about 1/5), but I think the question would be alot informative if it was how many people with depression have heart disease.

In theory we'd get a chest scan on people diagnosed with depression and see how prominent heart anomalies are in the depressed.

If there is no significant correlation then all the better but if there is then studies would have to be done to determine whether heart disease contributes to depression or vice versa (i.e. behaviours of the depressed contributing to heart damage or heart damage contributing to the behaviours)

My family has a history of both heart disease and depression and thinking of my kitten made me think that there is possibly more that can be done to help people with depression by helping them look after their heart (proper diet and excercise, quit smoking etc.)

As the things you do to look after your heart are often the things doctors recommend for helping to get out of depression also

Just wanted to know what people thought of this idea and if we (collectively) think it's good then who to talk to about it

I don't mind if it gets done without me but if this post inspired it then at the very least put my handle in the credits somewhere ;p

 

[Butterfly]

Many of us who take medication, in particular anti psychotics are always going to be more at risk of heart disease, diabetes and high cholesterol because they tend to make us gain a lot of weight that is hard to shake off. There's also drugs like lithium which can affect the kidneys in long term use. Also, depression tends to make us very inactive and develop bad eating habits.

Funnily enough about a year or so ago I read a study that showed medication taken for high cholesterol could potentially help symptoms of bipolar. Which was interesting because long term use of bipolar meds may mean that high cholesterol tablets are needed.

 

[Bleakjuju_bean]

I'm hoping any study would take assessments after diagnosis but before any medication, my thinking is that if we understood if and how heart health affects behaviour subconsciously better then some boffins would have more handles on treating mental health, I think heart conditions would lead to less energy through reduced oxygenation thus contributing to depressive behaviour

I'm too biased to be anything to do with such a study though

 

[Callousgirl]

There's also drugs like lithium which can affect the kidneys in long term use.

I first started out with lithium, and lithium can cause birth defects with some newborns.

 

[Callousgirl]

I'm too biased to be anything to do with such a study though

@Bleakjuju_bean

I can give you a solid study of bipolar disorder. Without medication, someone who is bipolar, 25% will take their life. With medication, someone who is bipolar, 15% will take their life. Is it better to give someone who is bipolar a drug like lithium or some other drug that may shorten their lifespan to be less than 5 years the national average of a country. Let us do a ethical thought experiment. We are back in the 1970's, we have someone who is 20 years old, and the person is bipolar. Do we give the person lithium that can cause the person to have a shorter lifespan than the national average by a few years; or, refuse given lithium and the person may or may not live to be 30 as being untreated. You have someone who is 20 years old, what is a longer lifespan, suicide as 21 or a medical problem with lithium and die at 65.

I will tell you a medical deal I would take. If there is a drug that would make me never think of suicide, or be depressed or manic, but it will kill me when I turn 75. Or, take different drugs, and I have depression and manic problems, but I could live to be in my 80's. I would take the drug that will make me live to be 75.

 

[Bleakjuju_bean]

But would it be beneficial to better understand how the heart relates to mental health and subsequent behaviours, while people are not on medication, as medication as you've rightly pointed out would throw the results of any study

 

[Callousgirl]

But would it be beneficial to better understand how the heart relates to mental health and subsequent behaviours, while people are not on medication, as medication as you've rightly pointed out would throw the results of any study

I may share the same feeling with a number of people who have tried to take their life, sometime in their past. My personal feeling, since I have in the past tried to take my life more than once. Thinking of heart related problems, that can shorten my overall lifespan is a non issue. I know I have to die of something, and being scared of dying is not that scary since I have already placed my life at risk in the past. If I die of heart related problems, or cancer, or any other natural deaths, it is no longer the boogieman.

 

[Lady Wolfshead]

I just keep thinking of your little kitten. So sorry you lost it and I hope you get to meet again one day and it's still cuddly but able to frolic as well.

 

[Butterfly]

I first started out with lithium, and lithium can cause birth defects with some newborns.

This has actually been proven to be be untrue. There is recent research that proves that lithium doesn't cause any defects to an foetus in the first trimester of pregnancy. Psychiatrists in the UK are now allowing women who take lithium to continue taking it during pregnancy. They believe now it is probably one of the safer psychiatric meds to take during pregnancy.

 

[Callousgirl]

This has actually been proven to be be untrue. There is recent research that proves that lithium doesn't cause any defects to an foetus in the first trimester of pregnancy. Psychiatrists in the UK are now allowing women who take lithium to continue taking it during pregnancy. They believe now it is probably one of the safer psychiatric meds to take during pregnancy.

I have been told different with doctors and nurses. Past research or current research, I am not going to gamble with the health of my newborn if I wanted to have children.

 

[Butterfly]

I have been told different with doctors and nurses. Past research or current research, I am not going to gamble with the health of my newborn if I wanted to have children.

I often feel the US can be a little behind when it comes to good practice. I know of a few lithium takers who continued through pregnancy who have all had healthy babies with mentally stable mothers. If I were to ever get pregnant taking me off all my medication is just not going to happen so I would continue taking my lithium. The old research was conducted decades ago and is now very outdated and irrelevant.

 

[Callousgirl]

I often feel the US can be a little behind when it comes to good practice. I know of a few lithium takers who continued through pregnancy who have all had healthy babies with mentally stable mothers. If I were to ever get pregnant taking me off all my medication is just not going to happen so I would continue taking my lithium. The old research was conducted decades ago and is now very outdated and irrelevant.

America does not do hard research on lithium because it is a drug that is just a cheep salt and it is more designed for people who are poor and on a government health plan. The information for the dose levels standards is still designed for a 180 pound male. So if your a woman, your standard dose levels are designed for a male. Since there is different data dealing with lithium and babies, doctors would play it safe and take you off the drug and place you on something else. Reason being, if you are on lithium and if you have a baby with a birth defect -- do you want a lawsuit that will be settled out of court. Doctors and hospitals have to be thinking, do we risk a lawsuit

 

[Butterfly]

America does not do hard research on lithium because it is a drug that is just a cheep salt and it is more designed for people who are poor and on a government health plan. The information for the dose levels standards is still designed for a 180 pound male. So if your a woman, your standard dose levels are designed for a male. Since there is different data dealing with lithium and babies, doctors would play it safe and take you off the drug and place you on something else. Reason being, if you are on lithium and if you have a baby with a birth defect -- do you want a lawsuit that will be settled out of court. Doctors and hospitals have to be thinking, do we risk a lawsuit

It is really sad that that is the mentality in the US. Here our lithium dose is based on the lithium levels in the blood. I have been on different doses depending on my levels. I've been on as little as 600mg and as much as 1000mg. My level is currently stable at 0.7 on 900mg. We have very strict lithium monitoring here.

 

[Bleakjuju_bean]

I may share the same feeling with a number of people who have tried to take their life, sometime in their past. My personal feeling, since I have in the past tried to take my life more than once. Thinking of heart related problems, that can shorten my overall lifespan is a non issue.

I know what you mean living healthy doesn't really matter if you're not planning to see Christmas

But I think heart issues, more importantly than shortening life, may affect ones behaviour, and as a result contribute to suicidal thoughts and depression.

Its about better understanding what causes depression and what keeps it going. If we found that heart disease is common in people with depression then:

1, we caught heart disease early *yay*
2, more research can be done as to why the heart affects mental health (if it does)
3, greater understanding of mental health
4, more efficient treatment of depression will be developed as understanding increases

 

[DrownedFishOnFire]

America does not do hard research on lithium because it is a drug that is just a cheep salt and it is more designed for people who are poor and on a government health plan. The information for the dose levels standards is still designed for a 180 pound male. So if your a woman, your standard dose levels are designed for a male. Since there is different data dealing with lithium and babies, doctors would play it safe and take you off the drug and place you on something else. Reason being, if you are on lithium and if you have a baby with a birth defect -- do you want a lawsuit that will be settled out of court. Doctors and hospitals have to be thinking, do we risk a lawsuit

I have no idea where you got this information about US and not studying it. Maybe its not as of late due to too many drugs as out there to study. Lithium is the one of the most studied drug worldwide. Its a very old drug IMO It was used for other health conditions in the 19th century, this is how long lithium has been around.

Are you meaning to explain that doctors are going around prescribing a dose thats only for 180 pound PERSON? Give the doctors some credit. Theres a good reason why they ask you what your weight is and you have regular blood tests to check your lithium levels to ensure its fine.

Lithium is one of the best drugs out there to try first IMO that doesnt cause adverse side effects if taken correctly per directions vs other stuff out there. From my direct experience and work experience. Its not a poor mans drug lol. Plenty rich peeps are on it as nothing else worked.


My theory why people are having babies with deformity is not the just drug itself but what shit is coming through the tap. More and more communities are finding out their water supply is contaminated with lead.

Now thats a new ammo lawyers for the pharma can fight back with. Theyre going to fight back harder now with more communities as you cannot deny lead has bad effects on the body. Tho a different can of worms.