Be honest with me does this sound insane?

[somewherefaraway]

So this is something I wrote in my journal earlier. I was experiencing some really heavy emotions. But as I went over it after giving myself some time to calm down I’m now feeling conflicted about it. I don’t know if I truly believe this. I don’t know if it really aligns with my actual nature.

“People keep telling me “you should forgive yourself, you deserve to be happy” or “be kind to yourself, we all make mistakes.” But I just don’t agree with that. For me to feel any form of happiness after the things that have happened would be immoral in my eyes. I feel more comfortable suffering than being happy. Being happy feels wrong to me. I hurt others, therefore I must feel an equal amount of hurt.”

 

[full]

It does not sound insane at all, a lot of people actually rather be miserable than happy. You are rather being hard on yourself and if you enjoy suffering that is kind of masochistic. I'd personally be happier if you change your views regarding those things and sought happiness, self-forgiveness, etc.

 

[may71]

For me to feel any form of happiness after the things that have happened would be immoral in my eyes. I feel more comfortable suffering than being happy. Being happy feels wrong to me. I hurt others, therefore I must feel an equal amount of hurt

There may be some reasons why you're clinging to your own suffering, but there may be ways to work that out.

Firstly I would say it sounds like you have an exaggerated sense of how much suffering you've caused. It also sounds like you have a belief that suffering somehow helps others, but this is not true.

There's probably a better way to confront the feelings of guilt that you have about the past, maybe a combination of doing some good things that might make you feel like you've made up for things you've done in the past, but also self acceptance and self forgiveness.

 

[LumberJack]

Being happy feels wrong to me. I hurt others, therefore I must feel an equal amount of hurt.”

Would you say that to someone else? You are not the sole arbiter of your own consequences. Life is hard enough. It’s not fair, and usually turns out at least a little less rosy than we thought it would. In other words, if it is necessary for you to be hurt, don’t worry, that will happen without any effort on your part.


I believe in karma, but I also believe that many people misunderstand how karma works. Some people hear “karma,” and they think it means there’s some sort of cosmic bank account where if you do good deeds, then you will be rewarded. If you do bad deeds, then you’re punished. You make karmic deposits and withdrawals as life goes on and you hope to keep a positive balance so that you get good luck.

This is an oversimplification that misses the point. Karma is not a system of punishment or reward. In fact, from the ultimate point of view, there is no good nor evil. All judgments are relative by their nature. You cannot have hot without cold, good without evil, etc. because temperature, morality, and anything else that admits of duality is meaningless except in comparison to its opposite.

Karma is more accurately translated as the law of cause and effect. If you plant an olive tree, then in 20 years you have olives. That is karma. Similarly, if I cause harm to others, then those harms also bear fruit in their own way. It’s absolutely not necessary for you to execute your own karma. In fact, from the perspective of cause and effect, all you are doing is causing yourself new suffering, that will have its effects later. You don’t deserve to suffer.

You don’t deserve happiness and ease, either. These things are judgments we make over ourselves and our situations. For example, you can look at one situation and see it as horrible. Another person could see the same situation as wonderful, because they are comparing the situation to a different idea.


TL;DR: You cannot “pay” for past mistakes by putting yourself through suffering. This will instead create a habit of self aggression that will only exacerbate your current situation.

 

[Windhover]

It does not sound insane. Do you feel as though it is? It sounds as though it could cause you a whole lot of stress and worry, which might in turn feel overwhelming, I'm wondering?

When I am in the middle o feeling intense emotions, I can't actually initiate much logical thinking. Well I can, but I have to stuff the emotions and that isn't good, it is very bad. For me I mean. So the logical part of my brain gets extremely uncomfortable when I have to deal with very strong emotions.

Have you talked to the people who you think you hurt?

 

[BRADY33]

So this is something I wrote in my journal earlier. I was experiencing some really heavy emotions. But as I went over it after giving myself some time to calm down I’m now feeling conflicted about it. I don’t know if I truly believe this. I don’t know if it really aligns with my actual nature.

“People keep telling me “you should forgive yourself, you deserve to be happy” or “be kind to yourself, we all make mistakes.” But I just don’t agree with that. For me to feel any form of happiness after the things that have happened would be immoral in my eyes. I feel more comfortable suffering than being happy. Being happy feels wrong to me. I hurt others, therefore I must feel an equal amount of hurt.”

Was the pain you caused intentional or due to addiction or mental illness?

 

[LumberJack]

...TL;DR: You cannot “pay” for past mistakes by putting yourself through suffering. This will instead create a habit of self aggression that will only exacerbate your current situation.

In revisiting this I think I sound like an arrogant know-it-all. That's because I *am* an arrogant know-it-all, but I try to be compassionate and kind because my favorite people have lived that way. I am totally sorry if I sounded condescending or authoritative. God knows I wouldn't be here if I had my own shit together.

 

[may71]

In revisiting this I think I sound like an arrogant know-it-all

I thought your post was fine, and quite interesting. I don't know if the OP has an interest in the subject of karma, but for anyone who does the post would probably be well received.

 

[SamB]

I think your self punishment is not unusual and in a hypothetical way it could also seem rational but their are some assumptions that are needed to make it work that just don’t hold true in the world we inhabit.
First I think you have to think about what the point of punishment is, you can certainly make an argument that the victim of an act is made to feel better that the perpetrator is punished, however this is not always the case and in your particular case, do the victims even know you are punishing yourself and would they want it, I suspect neither holds true and you aren’t helping them by punishing yourself. The next tenant of punishment is really to act as a deterrent so people don’t do bad things because they don’t want to suffer the punishment, I think when the punishment is self determined and self inflicted then this can’t hold true. So honestly I don’t think there is any purpose to the punishment you are inflicting upon yourself other than perhaps to alleviate your guilt. I think on balance most people would say the punishment you are giving yourself is too harsh and that’s why people are urging you to forgive yourself so that guilt can fade and you can stop punishing yourself.
This leads into my second point is that are you capable of correctly assessing the pain you have caused others and determining your responsibility and then determining and administering a fair punishment. I think in nearly all cases the answer is probably not really.
I think the third point is that for your system of self punishment to work then everybody else has to take the same altruistic stance as yourself and self punish appropriately for all the things they have done. This is simply never going to happen. You’ve already had a lot of bad things happen to you and it doesn’t seem like any of the perpetrators were ever punished for that so I think overall more bad has happened to you then you have inflicted on others.
Ultimately I think punishment is never really the best option. It rarely makes things better and usually just ends up in hurting everyone. So instead of inflicting a negative punishment on yourself why not try and go the other way and give something positive to someone else.

 

[UrbanRose]

I don't know what you or anyone else deserves. But, if you fear that life will let you off too easy, don't worry. You've got plenty of pain coming, as do we all. There's no getting off easy in this world.

Try to do some good. Feeling guilty is a hard state of mind. You can't change one minute of the past. What's done is done. Many people who have screwed up royally find a way to go on and contribute. You can too.

 

[Survivorist]

“People keep telling me “you should forgive yourself, you deserve to be happy” or “be kind to yourself, we all make mistakes.” But I just don’t agree with that. For me to feel any form of happiness after the things that have happened would be immoral in my eyes. I feel more comfortable suffering than being happy. Being happy feels wrong to me. I hurt others, therefore I must feel an equal amount of hurt.”

I do not know what you think you did which makes it so difficult to forgive yourself. But things cannot be undone and forgiving, changing, doing things better is the good way. You can only love others if you love yourself, you can only forgive others, if you forgive yourself. At least, this is what I think. Otherwise life is hell.

 

[Walker]

So if you did X thing then you have to suffer for it, is that it? And by staying miserable forever, you basically just scoop up ALL the bad things you've done, past or present, and keep suffering for them indefinitely. I just want to make sure we're on the same track here cause that sounds like a pretty large cross to bear, you know?

 

[somewherefaraway]

Have you talked to the people who you think you hurt?

No they are not interested in talking to me anymore. It’s best to leave them alone.

 

[somewherefaraway]

Was the pain you caused intentional or due to addiction or mental illness?

Yes it was caused by addiction and mental illness. I have BPD and a bit of a drug addiction. Although I was aware that the things I was doing were wrong within the moment. I never once thought to myself “what I’m doing is ok.” I’d always be left with guilt and shame but my behavior continued until it ultimately made things worse.

 

[somewherefaraway]

In revisiting this I think I sound like an arrogant know-it-all. That's because I *am* an arrogant know-it-all, but I try to be compassionate and kind because my favorite people have lived that way. I am totally sorry if I sounded condescending or authoritative. God knows I wouldn't be here if I had my own shit together.

Nah you’re fine dude lol. I didn’t think there was anything wrong with what ya said.

 

[somewherefaraway]

So if you did X thing then you have to suffer for it, is that it? And by staying miserable forever, you basically just scoop up ALL the bad things you've done, past or present, and keep suffering for them indefinitely. I just want to make sure we're on the same track here cause that sounds like a pretty large cross to bear, you know?

I don’t know it’s really hard to put together the exact words for how I feel about this. I just feel extremely bad for making other people feel bad and in my mind I feel like it would be an insult to them if I were to feel any form of happiness or attempt to improve my life. If they don’t want to forgive me, why should I forgive myself? So I feel like by making myself feel bad everyday it makes the people I’ve hurt feel closure with themselves knowing that the person who affected them is being punished.

 

[ElleisForLisa]

So this is something I wrote in my journal earlier. I was experiencing some really heavy emotions. But as I went over it after giving myself some time to calm down I’m now feeling conflicted about it. I don’t know if I truly believe this. I don’t know if it really aligns with my actual nature.

“People keep telling me “you should forgive yourself, you deserve to be happy” or “be kind to yourself, we all make mistakes.” But I just don’t agree with that. For me to feel any form of happiness after the things that have happened would be immoral in my eyes. I feel more comfortable suffering than being happy. Being happy feels wrong to me. I hurt others, therefore I must feel an equal amount of hurt.”

Not insane at all.. I obviously don’t know your circumstances to cause you to feel you cannot allow yourself to be happy. But I heavily relate to how you feel I went a year without doing basic self care because of this kind of thinking. I’m really sorry this is happening to you just know you’re not alone, and you’re not insane about feeling this way. Please take care
Cheers

 

[ElleisForLisa]

So this is something I wrote in my journal earlier. I was experiencing some really heavy emotions. But as I went over it after giving myself some time to calm down I’m now feeling conflicted about it. I don’t know if I truly believe this. I don’t know if it really aligns with my actual nature.

“People keep telling me “you should forgive yourself, you deserve to be happy” or “be kind to yourself, we all make mistakes.” But I just don’t agree with that. For me to feel any form of happiness after the things that have happened would be immoral in my eyes. I feel more comfortable suffering than being happy. Being happy feels wrong to me. I hurt others, therefore I must feel an equal amount of hurt.”

Sorry was re reading and I couldn’t help but think of myself when I was younger and I read a book called MAD, BAD and SAD. Well I took it and said eff it all I rather be mad and bad than sad… it didn’t turn out so well for me in the end living with the past is more than hard it’s sometimes barely doable. I just think that if you sit and do this to yourself it is showing how much it bothers you, that has GOT to count for so much! and your hurt that you hurt others sounds like you have a lot of empathy. Don’t smack a b!tch for saying your post shows me youre a decent person 🙈 🤗

 

[BRADY33]

Once you have done what you can,let the past go.

Most people with depression are a bit narcasustic. Easy to be in this time of celebrated ignorance. But too much time alone leaves us with huge blind spots about ourselves.

The unexamined life is not worth living.

 

[Windhover]

So I feel like by making myself feel bad everyday it makes the people I’ve hurt feel closure with themselves knowing that the person who affected them is being punished.

This is, pardon me for saying myopic. Like @BRADY33 said, we can get hyper focused on our own viewpoints. You can't give closure to the people you've hurt, but you can participate in it, because it's a process. It's communication of feelings and if possible a request for forgiveness which might give closure. I've given this months of thought because of my own situation.