Cellphones work by witchcraft

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dandelion s

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#21
Well, technically, ppl can think that you are those things but they can not say them. That's what I was trying to make the OP understand. We're a caring community here and we don't belittle or degrade others purely because we don't personally agree with them. That's not the SF ethos.

P.S. We all love you just the way you are but you already know that *hug
🤪😱😻🐛🦑 i meant that rhetorically speaking of course!
 

dandelion s

RAW, well done
SF Supporter
#22
So, why do people think that consciousness isn't caused by the neuro-chemical activity of our brains? Just like a cellphone, if the circuits stop functioning, the consciousness stops too.
i don’t agree with this. i believe that thought and consciousness reside in the brain but are not fixed in it. it may be slightly similar to radio waves coming into a radio and sound coming out of the speaker. i think the consciousness is of spirit and the spirit dwells in whatever it can dwell in. in a brain it is able to express so it does. spirits are in my view, tiny particles that make up the universe. they are real things which have been mistakenly attributed to the supernatural or magical or well... spiritual (in the more traditional sense). a simple way to think of it is that they are the radio waves and we are the radio. that my be extremely simple however and i do not have a better explanation but i do believe someone eventually will study this and we all will have a much better understanding sometime in the hopefully near future. .

consciousness may very well be caused by the neuro-chemical activity of our brains, but that does not need to be viewed as a limiting thing to happening within the brain and then ending when the life ends. but perhaps the use of the word “caused” could be replaced with something like “facilitated” as i do not think the neruo-chemical activity is the consciousness or brings it about but makes conditions such that it becomes active as expressing and bodily functioning.

i don’t believe that it is a logical conclusion that if the circuit stops functioning the consciousness will stop too. i wonder if such a conclusion can be drawn at all. how would anyone know that it has stopped? the circuit may be readable but is the consciousness? consciousness may be released or it may exit or perform other processes at the time the functioning stops, but i think it moves on to other states of function. neither one speculation or another can be proved and thus it is not necessary to cling to either but instead keep an open mind and study the subject more.
 

Xanthas

Well-Known Member
#23
See, dude, you're so convinced of your intellectual superiority that you don't even realize that you're strawmanning and being really condescending.

Saying "I think the soul may exist, but I acknowledge that my religious background may bias me toward that belief" is not at all the same as believing in "voodoo rituals" or that disease is caused by "micro-demons."

And your inability to acknowledge the grey area between keeping an open mind and mindlessly believing in superstition makes you as much of an ideologue as the religious leaders you dislike so much.
It seems you want to attack me for challengening the absence of doxic standards. I have no problem with having an open mind. I have a problem with closed minds. Shaping one's beliefs based on arguments and evidence is the hallmark of an open mind.

My challenge is to beliefs held in the absence of evidence and argument.
 

Xanthas

Well-Known Member
#24
You are certainly allowed to have your views on religion ect, however what you cannot do is belittle the people who have these views.

No one deserves condemnation for their religious or spiritual beliefs. Even if those beliefs do infact involve voodoo and witchcraft.

Please refrain from the way you word your examples because you are currently walking a very fine line atm.
Is there a facepalm emoji?

You really dont understand what I'm discussing. The problem is not the belief. The problem is in how the belief comes to be. That is, the problem is not that one believes X. The problem is in the subremptive character of the belief in X.

People deserve criticism for violating norms. You, yourself, are criticizing me for putatively violating a norm.

In fact, it seems you are trying to publicly shame me by telling me I am "walking a very fine line." Hence, where I raised a general issue for discussion about beliefs in the absence of evidence and argument, you are engaging in a personal attack right here for members to see. It looks to me that you are doing what you are incorrectly claiming I am doing.

Perhaps, though, now you understand the distinction I'm drawing?
 

Kira

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#25
Is there a facepalm emoji?
Yes, *facepalm If that's to imply that I'm too simple minded to understand what you're saying, then go for it. It honestly doesn't bother me.
People deserve criticism for violating norms.
No. No one ever 'deserves' criticism. Ever. And if so, who would be the one to do the criticising? The 'more intelligent', the one who is 'right'? Who determines the norms anyway?
You, yourself, are criticizing me for putatively violating a norm.
I'm criticising you for constantly dismissing the validity the forum rules. They aren't up for discussion. The rules are there for everyone and if you feel the need to constantly challenge them then what do you expect?
In fact, it seems you are trying to publicly shame me by telling me I am "walking a very fine line."
I mentioned that you are walking a fine line because you've had two threads locked and at least one post deleted, which means that you like to argue your point even when you've been told not to several times. It can become very tiring when people like to argue/debate for their own personal agenda.
My challenge is to beliefs held in the absence of evidence and argument.
Why does one need evidence? Does having evidence make it "real"? There's so many flaws to that theory that I honestly wouldn't even know where to start.

Sorry, but I'm bouncing out. You seem to just want to argue your point rather than have an open minded discussion with other members. And just so you know, I'm not personally coming after you. If threads and posts are reported by members then it's my job to look into them. That's what I do.

Kira
 

Auri

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#26
Ouch. So much arrogance in this thread, and I don't mean only coming from one person. Don't ever assume you know what others think. That comes as condescending too, honestly, don't. :(

No matter what my beliefs or opinions are, no one here showed any appreciation or understanding for the other side. It's just a battle, no listening, and yes, it got emotional, that's how it always goes with topics like that. Don't expect people not to lose their temper when it affects them so much, on both sides.

Also, don't ask questions you don't want to hear others' answers to.

Please, relax, listen, and try to understand, or move on with your lives.
 

Lisa the Goatgirl

She's less of an enigma now
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#27
Ok, so i'm just going to sidestep some of the more frustrated parts of this thread and get back down to the core, original post.

See, i read your example, and your issue with this concept, and while i can understand your reasoning, i think it ultimately comes down to a difference of perspective on one key issue: order or chaos. On the one side you have the people who see the universe as a big ball of stuff happening for random, albeit perfectly rational and explainable reasons. Bad things happen to good people, good things happen to bad people, and life perpetuates for no grander reason than said perpetuation. Then on the other side you have people who can't accept this idea that the universe just happens for no reason other than because it does. Everything must have a purpose, and a niche in life to fulfill. And as such, life must exist as a stepping stone to grander things.

So, to highlight your example in particular, you say that we can determine exactly where the functioning of a mobile phone begins and ends. That is true. But at the same time, we can also establish when exactly these devices began to exist, we can clearly map out their entire evolution, and we know their stated purpose, the very reason they came to be: They were invented by humans for the purpose of facilitating communication. However, if the first mobile phone was instead suddenly found one day in the middle of the patagonian rainforest, you'd have scientists pouring out of the woodwork trying to determine where these things came from, what they can do, and who created them. This is where your example breaks down. We can only find the notion of the functioning of mobile phones being this bizarre mysterious entity absurd, because we know every detail of the mobile's creation and purpose. We know for a fact that as far as a phone is concerned, we are its god, its creator, and we know what purpose we intended for said device. As i say, if we just encountered them in the wild, they very much would be these strange, mysterious creations, and concern over what exactly they might be capable of or for would be perfectly understandable. It's kind of a childish example, but it's a bit like that Doctor Who episode "the Power of Three", where a bunch of weird black cubes appear all over the world, because it's basically a bunch of aliens leaving their space-age iPads lying around.

But then you get humans, where we can't really know with complete certainty every detail of how we came into being, what our purpose is, or if some unseen external forces had a hand in shaping us. Which means that in our search for explanations, we came across the idea that there is something beyond the bounds of our perception as living creatures, which necessitates belief in the capacity to exist beyond death, which necessitates belief in the soul. So yeah, the belief in souls comes from our own psychological obligation to find higher purpose in our own existence other than simply to perpetuate life. Ultimately, it brings a lot of people much-needed comfort, and can motivate many into acts of benevolence, even if their motivations for doing so may not necessarily be strictly altruistic. So i'm generally inclined to see such faith as a good thing. I do agree that organised religions can often lead to some damaging mentalities, but i think at that point you're getting into the corruptability of human nature, and the inherent flaws in sufficiently monolithic entities like corporations and governments.

Anyway, yeah, sorry if my reply was kinda long, rambly, or doofy, but i just wanted to convey how i personally see the divide in perspective on this kind of issue.
 

Lisa the Goatgirl

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#28
Sorry to keep rambling, but i thought up a great analogy to summarise my thoughts on why that example doesn't quite work. What you're arguing is basically that when the circuitry of a phone fails, that phone ceases to be. But in doing so, you're discounting what most people on the opposing side are actually arguing, which is more equivalent to the cloud. When your phone breaks, sure that device itself stops working, but all of the data from that phone, the images, the videos, the music, even the personalised settings, exist on in some form of intangible outer plane, separate from the hardware of the phone itself. Meaning that while that phone may indeed be "dead", one could easily argue that the essence of what makes that phone unique, what makes that phone yours lives on. Hence, the "soul" of that phone continues even after its death, to be rehoused and repurposed later on by a higher being than that phone. So why is this such a crazy notion to extrapolate to people, given that it's so logical we invented the exact same concept? You've applied a false equivalency is my point.
 

Walker

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#29
Posts were deleted from this thread because they're far off topic and the thread has been derailed and become near-bullying in it's replies. I'm locking this and xanthas can post another thread if he chooses but I imagine he's chatted this up enough now.
 
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