Education in USA

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Hurted, Nov 19, 2008.

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  1. Hurted

    Hurted Well-Known Member

    Lately, we'we been discussing this topic a lot in my school.
    That's why i would love to hear your opinions, expecially if you are American.

    It's not secret, that percent of uneducated people in USA is way bigger than in any other country (with expection of third world countrys)

    Why do you think that so many americans cant find USA on world map? Why there is so many Americans that dont have a clue about what iraq war was/is all about?

    Does school sistem in USA sucks? Or are people simply not interested education? What is your view on this topic?
  2. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

  3. Bob26003

    Bob26003 Well-Known Member

    Because in general we are less socialistic than the other industrialized nations.

    We spend more on our military than the next 7 nations combined.
  4. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni

    It's all propaganda anyway.
    All true learning is unlearning.
  5. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    Well, you can't FORCE someone to learn. A good education is freely available in this country to anyone who wants to take advantage of it.
  6. Hurted

    Hurted Well-Known Member

    This does not tell me much. For example, i will make a really really weird comparison: Michael jackson has more fans then any other musician, yet at the same time he is most hated singer :rolleyes:

    Anyway, i watcher few documentaries and did quite a few reasearches, read some stuff, and im shure that there is more stupid people in USA then in UK.

    But thanks for posting this. It can be showed to people who stereotype and thing that all americans are stupid.

    That's really sad.

    I have to agree with that. But still, why so many people "refuse" this chance?
    I guess i'll never have the answer...
  7. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    False analogy. National education systems are not pop singers. Oh, and I would like to see either of your statements proven.

    I have offered definite proof that the American education system produces a high number of university graduates.
  8. OutCaste

    OutCaste Well-Known Member

    I'm an international student in America but judging from my experience, the quality of education in America(esp. in Science/Engineering) is not so good considering the exorbitant tuition fee that the universities charge. That's one of the reasons why many international students are now opting for Europe or Australia. Even countries like Russia,India and China are producing more scientists/engineers than America. In my own university, 70-80% of the engineering department is Asians and other foreign nationals. If you go to a graduate level class, you will probably see 1 or 2 Americans.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2008
  9. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    That's a different theme altogether. International students tend to go for more practical programs; not a difference in intellect, just a difference in goals. The US produces the lowest proportion of science graduates in the world, but a good number of graduates overall.
  10. OutCaste

    OutCaste Well-Known Member

    This may have more to do with propaganda shown in popular media rather than education.
  11. CAD

    CAD Well-Known Member

    Im intrigued. What do you mean exactly?


    It is well known that modern education and the modern school system in general tend to encourage scholarship at the expense of discernment and look upon the cramming of information as an end in itself as if a great amount of scholarship could already make an educated man. But why is thought discouraged at school? Why has the educational system twisted and distorted the pleasant pursuit of knowledge into a mechanical measured uniform and passive cramming of information? Why do we place more importance on knowledge than on thought? How do we come to call a college graduate an educated man simply because he has made up the necessary units or week-hours of psychology, medieval history, logic, and "religion"? Why are there school marks and diplomas and how did it come about that the mark and the diploma have, in the student's mind, come to take the place of the true aim of education?

    The reason is simple. We have this system because we are educating people in masses, as if in a factory, and anything which happens inside a factory must go by a dead and mechanical system. In order to protect its name and standardize its products, a school must certify them with diplomas. With diplomas, then, comes the necessity of grading, and with the necessity of grading come school mark marks, and in order to have school marks, there must be recitations, examinations, and tests. The whole thing forms an entirely logical sequence and there is no escape from it. But the consequences of having mechanical examinations and tests are more fatal than we imagine. For it immediately throws the emphasis on memorization of facts rather than on the development of taste or judgement. I have seen that it is easier to make a set of questions on historical dates than on vague opinions on vague questions. It is also easier to mark the papers.

    The danger is that after having instituted this system, we are liable to forget that we have already wavered, or we are apt to waver from the true ideal of education, which (I believe) is the development of good taste in knowledge. It is still useful to remember what Confucius said: "That scholarship which consists in the memorization of facts does not qualify one to be a teacher." There are no such things as compulsory subjects, no books, even Shakespeare's, that one must read. The school seems to proceed on the foolish idea that we can delimit a minimum stock of learning in history or geography which we can consider the absolute requisite of an educated man. The danger of prescribing a course of compulsory studies is that it implies that a man who has gone through the prescribed course ipso facto knows all there is to know for an educated man. It is therefore entirely logical that a graduate ceases to learn anything or to read books after he leaves school, because he has already learned all there is to know.

    We must give up the idea that a man's knowledge can be tested or measured in any form whatsoever. Chuangtse has well said, "Alas, my life is limited, while knowledge is limitless!" The pursuit of knowledge, is, after all, only like the exploration of a new continent, or an "adventure of the soul", as Anatole France says, and it will remain a pleasure, instead of becoming a torture, if the spirit of exploration with an open, questioning, curious and adventurous mind is maintained. Instead of the measured, uniform and passive cramming of information, we have to place this ideal of a positive, growing individual pleasure. Once the diploma and the marks are abolished, or treated for what they are worth, the pursuit of knowledge becomes positive, for the student is at least forced to ask himself why he studies at all. At present, the question is already answered for the student, for there is no question in his mind that he studies as a freshman, in order to become a sophomore in order to become a junior. All such extraneous considerations should be brushed aside, for the acquisition of knowledge is nobody else's business but one's own. Many of the good students study for their parents or teachers or their future wives, that they may not seem ungrateful to their parents who are spending so much money for their support at college, or because they wish to appear nice to a teacher who is nice and conscientious to them, or that they may go out of school and earn a higher salary to feed their families. I suggest that all such thoughts are immoral. The pursuit of knowledge should remain nobody else's business but one's own, and only then can education become a pleasure and become positive.

    Just some of my thoughts on education, relevant or not...
  12. Bob26003

    Bob26003 Well-Known Member

    Its a combination of factors: Breakdown of the traditional Family structure due to both Parents having to work due to the outsourcing of our manufacturing jobs.

    When it becomes harder and harder to support a Family it is going to cause all sorts of social problems.

    Real Wages have been stagnate for what now 30 years or so?

    The gap between ultra rich and working poor is getting deeper and deeper.

    Most Teens know the system is rigged. Or think it is. Whatever your perspective.

    For instance, check this out: America worker productivity has been steadily rising yet wages vs. inflation has not......... Greenspan said it is due to "increased worker uncertainty"........ In layman's terms; you don't know whether or not you will have a job in 6 months.

    Of course this is going to "trickle down" to our Children.

    Many PPL are losing faith in the American dream.


    Reports: Real wages stagnant as corporate profits soar
    Oakland Tribune, Sep 1, 2006 by Tim Simmers, BUSINESS WRITER

    California and U.S. workers won't have much to celebrate this LaborDay. The problem: They're not sharing in the wealth they help create for their employers, according to new reports released this week.

    Real wages remained stagnant in the past year in the Golden State, barely keeping up with inflation, and wages are falling nationwide, a report from the University of California, Berkeley's Center for Labor Research and Education revealed.

    Productivity growth is strong and corporate profits are soaring.

    But labor's share of the Gross Domestic Product is at its lowest level on record, and the gap between productivity and compensation hasn't been wider since 1947.


    If you don't find this source credible (which is always what cons say) then just google "real wages stagnate"
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2008
  13. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    Im gonna call bullshit right their mate, I know that all the men in my family no less than two generations ago left their schooling to work in pits because the familys needed the money.
  14. Hurted

    Hurted Well-Known Member

    What kind of proofs can i give you? Just think how many poor people there is in USA.
    There is not proof for many things that are known...

    About false analogy. You didnt understand what i wanted to say.

    It is possible, that one country has most educated people, yet at the same time percent of uneducated is bigger than in any other country too.

    For example, look at the gap between rich and poor in USA. Same could be said for education.
  15. Bob26003

    Bob26003 Well-Known Member

    That is my point. ie
  16. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    Whereas my point is that when we dependent on manufacturing jobs and when the traditional family structure was even stronger it was even harder to get to Uni.
  17. JohnADreams

    JohnADreams Well-Known Member

    As OutCaste said, I thought that the blame would lie at the feet of a misleading media and a disinterested population. After all, America has the best bread and circuses.
  18. jonstark

    jonstark Well-Known Member

    Education makes me a sad panda :sad: .
    I want to be reeducated :smile: . With a baseball bat!
  19. jameslyons

    jameslyons Well-Known Member

    I wonder if it has something to do with the size of the United States. Switzerland is a small country and has incredible social and civil services. But The United States, Russia, and China have very poor social services.
  20. saint6

    saint6 Well-Known Member

    the school system in america is a fucking joke. they spend to much time telling kids what to do than they do actually teaching them. and the little time they do teach, its 90% bullshit.
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