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Practical Advice How to decease or stop obsessive rumination?

LumberJack

Huggy Bear 🐻
SF Supporter
#1
I’m having trouble with repetitive, intrusive thoughts. It’s usually about suicide, or something that happened to me in the past that I have not healed from. I usually try distraction. I have noticed that I am less likely to be ruminating when I’m busy concentrating on something else. The thoughts about suicide still come up, but I can forget about the past.

Distraction only works for so long, though. Eventually I will get tired and need a break, at which point my demons return and I don’t know how to handle it.

I have to be doing something demanding, also. Today I was doing some chores and I was rehearsing past events for a long time before I noticed what I was doing.

I have a daily meditation practice, and that helps me recognize when my thoughts are spiraling. I would like to stop going into the loop in the first place. Anyone have something that works for them?
 

LumberJack

Huggy Bear 🐻
SF Supporter
#3

seabird

meandering home
SF Supporter
#4
My answer is two-fold. Getting comfortable with my mind/body's 'cyclic reviews'of certain traumas in my past is crucial. To be clear this doesn't mean I'm comfortable with what happened to me. I am working on being less anxous and controlled by the cyclic return of memories - that I do and will continue to experience their memories.

If this is all old news for you, please forgive the tmi.

Secondly: I have to keep my exercise and running habits because my mind and body need them. It's a simple as that, I am much more mentally and emotionally stable and happy when working out once a day or having a run. It's probably different for others but I need 45 minutes to an hour every day. The repetitive, anxiety inducing thoughts & nightmares are, with this exercise habit, kept at a level I can bear.

This practice also keeps depression away, for me. I know that Chinese medicine indicates that running is not a good thing but in moderation it is very beneficial for me.

best to you @LumberJack
 
#6
I have, and I find it too much at once. For example, the way I am supposed to eat according to Chinese Medicine is way different than what I do now. I don’t suppose there’s like a beginner level, where I could make gradual changes?
Yeah, sure, it's ok to make gradual changes.

I find that acupuncturists/Chinese herbalists don't even bother mentioning diet and lifestyle changes, even though they can help a lot. Part of that might be because they realize people often don't want to make changes, or because the changes may be too difficult.

So just getting some professional treatments could help you. If you can also make some dietary changes, that's good too.

Do you want to say what your diet is like, and what changes have been recommended to you?
 

Empress00

SF Supporter
#7
I am reading Katie Piper's book on confidence (she was raped & suffered an acid attack) and she says one of the techniques she learned at CBT was that once you become aware of your thought spiral you say a safety word can be anything e.g. poppy! daffodil! and that then stops or brings awareness to the thought spiral so you can think of something else instead x
 

LumberJack

Huggy Bear 🐻
SF Supporter
#8
Yeah, sure, it's ok to make gradual changes.

I find that acupuncturists/Chinese herbalists don't even bother mentioning diet and lifestyle changes, even though they can help a lot. Part of that might be because they realize people often don't want to make changes, or because the changes may be too difficult.

So just getting some professional treatments could help you. If you can also make some dietary changes, that's good too.

Do you want to say what your diet is like, and what changes have been recommended to you?
Yes, I was seeing an acupuncturist for a while, and he gave me some suggestions. His practice had a lot to do with the 5 elements, but I think that probably doesn’t narrow it down much. The dietary recommendations are: nothing cold, not even ice water. Minimize refined sugar and sweeteners in general. Cook everything you eat. No deep fried foods although stir fried is allowed.

My diet consists of mostly fried chicken, baked goods (cookies), soda, and when I eat healthy foods they are raw like smoothies, salads, or sushi/poke. Alliteration unintentional. Hardly any starch since I eat so much sugar and flour. I get rice and beans in the occasional burrito, and I will get fried potatoes every so often. I also eat as much guacamole as I have access to, as long as it’s not the fake packaged type.
 

LumberJack

Huggy Bear 🐻
SF Supporter
#9
I am reading Katie Piper's book on confidence (she was raped & suffered an acid attack) and she says one of the techniques she learned at CBT was that once you become aware of your thought spiral you say a safety word can be anything e.g. poppy! daffodil! and that then stops or brings awareness to the thought spiral so you can think of something else instead x
Well first, I have not heard of that book, but it is absolutely awful that these things were done to her. If she has overcome that, she has a right to publish a book about confidence. It just makes me sad that people hurt other people so viciously.

I am aware of the CBT technique of thought stopping. It was suggested to me when I did CBT about 10 years ago. The above sounds similar. I think I can give it a try, but I have to come up with something else to think about ahead of time. I have tried to shift to thinking about what I am grateful for, or good memories. I have not had success. It feels forced and that backfired. I also have tried repeating a mantra to myself. I have memorized a 100-syllable mantra in Sanskrit, so that can keep me busy for long enough. However it works more as a preventative, than a psychological band-aid. I have to practice it ahead of time, and then I am less likely to spiral.

I do hope that the CBT technique will give you some relief.
 
#10
The dietary recommendations are: nothing cold, not even ice water. Minimize refined sugar and sweeteners in general. Cook everything you eat. No deep fried foods although stir fried is allowed.
That sounds like pretty solid advice, imho.

My diet consists of mostly fried chicken, baked goods (cookies), soda
That's pretty bad. I could definitely see someone getting into trouble with that.

I also eat as much guacamole as I have access to, as long as it’s not the fake packaged type.
I think guac is not so bad.

Maybe you could have discussion with your practitioner about phasing in some changes.

Could you replace the fried chicken with baked or stir-fried chicken? Or maybe have some baked fish every so often, or some beans.

If you'd like, I could suggest some other foods that you could prepare easily and quickly that might be better for you.

Are you getting take-out fried chicken? Is knowing how to prepare food for yourself one of the barriers?
 

LumberJack

Huggy Bear 🐻
SF Supporter
#11
heh, yeah it's pretty much takeout. I have discovered Nashville Hot chicken tenders and if I don't know what I want to eat, it's because I really want spicy chicken. I know how to cook, but I'm at a loss as to maintaining a kitchen. I hate to clean up, and meal planning, making a list based on plan, going shopping, etc are things that drain me quicklt
 

Atreides

drink plenty of water
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#12
One thing I've learned by rumination is that it gets stronger the more you try to fight it. This is why I like meditation. It allows you something like breath to focus on. Think about it like this. If you were a smoker who's trying to quit, you don't want to focus on "not smoking". The more you think about "not smoking" the more you focus on smoking. It's like trying not to think of a polar bear. If you keep repeating "Don't smoke" to yourself, your mind is just going to focus on the word "smoke". So we need to focus on something completely unrelated to the subject of our rumination. A good exercise I used to do is to close my eyes and try my best to picture an apple. I would take time to imagine the stem, leaf, the color, etc. Remember SF is here for you.
 
#14
hate to clean up, and meal planning, making a list based on plan, going shopping, etc are things that drain me quicklt
There are some really simple meals you can make. Like rolling-off-a-log easy. Most recipes are a little more fancy and difficult to prepare than they need to be.

I can say more about this if you'd like.
 

LumberJack

Huggy Bear 🐻
SF Supporter
#16
There are some really simple meals you can make. Like rolling-off-a-log easy. Most recipes are a little more fancy and difficult to prepare than they need to be.

I can say more about this if you'd like.
sure, tbh I forgot to mention that I also want to minimize how much kitchen equipment I need, e.g., blender, stand mixer, graters, slicers (mandolin), it's like too much to manage and I might need to move soon. I look at recipes sometimes and I feel overwhelmed by the equipment needed. I am great with a blender, but anything more complicated than that and I am comparing the cost of the gadget against just ordering takeout.

OTOH I am ritualistic with my coffee and have enough coffee wares to fill a box with just that stuff. Kettle and grinder need update, though.

I hope that is not TMI.
 
#17
I hope that is not TMI.
No, it's ok :)

Not much equipment is needed for the cooking I describe. The main things are a microwave oven, microwave-safe dishes, and silverware.

1. Microwaved mixed vegetables (same instructions for most other kinds of frozen vegetables). I usually get a mix of corn, peas, carrots, and greenbeans, but it's a matter of personal preference.

Get a one or two pound bag of mixed frozen vegetables.
Open the bag and pour about a quarter to a third of a pound into a microwave-safe dish.
Add about a tablespoon or two of water to the dish (I usually just eyeball it).
Put a rubber band around the bag of vegetables to keep it closed in the freezer.
Microwave the dish on high for about 6.5-8 minutes, until they're as crunchy or soft as you like them. Maybe add a butter or little olive oil.

2. Microwaved Potato.
Get a microwave potato cooker bag. I'm not sure what the official name is. One brand is called "potato express". It's just a quilted bag with a flap on it that works great for cooking potatoes in the microwave. There are probably other brands that work just as well.

Buy a bag of potatoes. You can usually get a 5 pound or bigger bag for cheap. I usually take the potatoes out of the plastic bag to give them some air, they usually last longer that way.

Wash the potato and remove any eyes or anything else you don't like from the potato.
Put the potato in the bag and microwave on high for about 4.5 minutes. Then flip the bag over and cook again for another 1-4 minutes, depending on the size of the potato.
Maybe add some butter or olive oil if you'd like.

3. Microwaved beans.
Ok this one is so simple it's kind of ridiculous to give directions, but...
Get a can of beans (black beans, garbanzo beans, kidney beans, etc)
Open the can and wash off the beans in a sieve, or rinse them right in the can using the lid to strain them (rinsing is important for canned beans, because they often are packed with a lot of salt, or a chemical preservative).
Put the beans in a dish and warm them in the microwave for maybe a minute.
Sometimes I'll get chick peas and heat them up for 1.5 minutes in the microwave, then add some spaghetti sauce.
You can get silicone dish covers to put over the dish so the beans don't explode everywhere, or a glass cover.

Same instructions for other canned foods, though others may not require rinsing. Canned food is not ideal, but a little is not so bad.

4. Microwaved oatmeal.
Get a container of rolled oats.
Pour about a cup into a m-safe dish. There should be enough capacity in the dish to hold more the amount that you add, because oatmeal will tend to boil up when it's cooked.
Add enough water to cover the oatmeal.
Microwave for about 1.5 minutes on high.
Microwave it again for about 3 minutes on 50% power. You may have to make adjustments based on the size of the bowl or dish you use and the strength of the microwave to prevent it from overflowing.

You could also just follow the instructions on the container of oatmeal. My cooking directions may help to prevent the oatmeal from overflowing.

5. Microwaved turkey burger.
Get some ground turkey burger. The lower-fat kind is usually more expensive, but probably better for you. There's kind of a trade off between price and low-fat. I've found that 99% is too pricey, but 96% is ok. Your results may vary.
Scoop some out with a fork and make a flat patty in a m-safe dish.
I usually poke a doughnut whole in the middle, because that part tends to cook more slowly othewise.
Cook on high for about 2 to 2.5 minutes.
Pour off the fat, or maybe pat the burger with paper towel.

Turkey burger has gone way up in price in my area, so I've been buying pork and slicing it into small chunks and then microwaving it on 50% power.

6. Tuna salad.
Open and drain a can of tuna. "Chunk light" tuna is best, because it has less mercury in it.
Mix the tuna with about 3-4 spoon fulls of mayonnaise.
You can heat the tuna, eat it as is, or put it on a slice of bread to make an open-faced sandwich.

7. If you like rice, you might want to try getting a rice cooker. I don't like rice because if I eat quite a bit, I'll usually feel ill afterward. There's a complicated Chinese medicine explanation for this, but suffice it say that if you don't feel bad then next day after eating a lot of rice, it's probably ok.
 
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Empress00

SF Supporter
#18
I don't know what things are like in the US but in the UK I get an online grocery shop delivered to me every fortnight, it's really convenient and a lot less stressful, so maybe you could explore that option 😊x
 

LumberJack

Huggy Bear 🐻
SF Supporter
#19
No, it's ok :)

Not much equipment is needed for the cooking I describe. The main things are a microwave oven, microwave-safe dishes, and silverware.

1. Microwaved mixed vegetables (same instructions for most other kinds of frozen vegetables). I usually get a mix of corn, peas, carrots, and greenbeans, but it's a matter of personal preference.

Get a one or two pound bag of mixed frozen vegetables.
Open the bag and pour about a quarter to a third of a pound into a microwave-safe dish.
Add about a tablespoon or two of water to the dish (I usually just eyeball it).
Put a rubber band around the bag of vegetables to keep it closed in the freezer.
Microwave the dish on high for about 6.5-8 minutes, until they're as crunchy or soft as you like them. Maybe add a butter or little olive oil.

2. Microwaved Potato.
Get a microwave potato cooker bag. I'm not sure what the official name is. One brand is called "potato express". It's just a quilted bag with a flap on it that works great for cooking potatoes in the microwave. There are probably other brands that work just as well.

Buy a bag of potatoes. You can usually get a 5 pound or bigger bag for cheap. I usually take the potatoes out of the plastic bag to give them some air, they usually last longer that way.

Wash the potato and remove any eyes or anything else you don't like from the potato.
Put the potato in the bag and microwave on high for about 4.5 minutes. Then flip the bag over and cook again for another 1-4 minutes, depending on the size of the potato.
Maybe add some butter or olive oil if you'd like.

3. Microwaved beans.
Ok this one is so simple it's kind of ridiculous to give directions, but...
Get a can of beans (black beans, garbanzo beans, kidney beans, etc)
Open the can and wash off the beans in a sieve, or rinse them right in the can using the lid to strain them (rinsing is important for canned beans, because they often are packed with a lot of salt, or a chemical preservative).
Put the beans in a dish and warm them in the microwave for maybe a minute.
Sometimes I'll get chick peas and heat them up for 1.5 minutes in the microwave, then add some spaghetti sauce.
You can get silicone dish covers to put over the dish so the beans don't explode everywhere, or a glass cover.

Same instructions for other canned foods, though others may not require rinsing. Canned food is not ideal, but a little is not so bad.

4. Microwaved oatmeal.
Get a container of rolled oats.
Pour about a cup into a m-safe dish. There should be enough capacity in the dish to hold more the amount that you add, because oatmeal will tend to boil up when it's cooked.
Add enough water to cover the oatmeal.
Microwave for about 1.5 minutes on high.
Microwave it again for about 3 minutes on 50% power. You may have to make adjustments based on the size of the bowl or dish you use and the strength of the microwave to prevent it from overflowing.

You could also just follow the instructions on the container of oatmeal. My cooking directions may help to prevent the oatmeal from overflowing.

5. Microwaved turkey burger.
Get some ground turkey burger. The lower-fat kind is usually more expensive, but probably better for you. There's kind of a trade off between price and low-fat. I've found that 99% is too pricey, but 96% is ok. Your results may vary.
Scoop some out with a fork and make a flat patty in a m-safe dish.
I usually poke a doughnut whole in the middle, because that part tends to cook more slowly othewise.
Cook on high for about 2 to 2.5 minutes.
Pour off the fat, or maybe pat the burger with paper towel.

Turkey burger has gone way up in price in my area, so I've been buying pork and slicing it into small chunks and then microwaving it on 50% power.

6. Tuna salad.
Open and drain a can of tuna. "Chunk light" tuna is best, because it has less mercury in it.
Mix the tuna with about 3-4 spoon fulls of mayonnaise.
You can heat the tuna, eat it as is, or put it on a slice of bread to make an open-faced sandwich.

7. If you like rice, you might want to try getting a rice cooker. I don't like rice because if I eat quite a bit, I'll usually feel ill afterward. There's a complicated Chinese medicine explanation for this, but suffice it say that if you don't feel bad then next day after eating a lot of rice, it's probably ok.
Thanks for the ideas. I confess that I am not a big fan of any of those, except for the potato in microwave. Cheese is conspicuously absent and I don’t think I could live that way, lol. Same for any form of smoked pork.

Tuna salad is okay, and I think I make a good version of it. It’s so simple, that there is a lot of room for creativity, such as blending different spices, adding different minced vegetables, like celery or onion, and making the dressing a little more fancy, but still based on mayonnaise.

regarding rice, and feel great when I eat it. It spikes my blood sugar so I have a crash later, but I feel better after recovering from the crash. I started out not liking sushi too much, because I don’t like seafood too much. The way I felt so much better after eating it kept me going back for more, and eventually I developed a taste for it. It still feels good to eat, like after I have some nigiri, my body is saying thanks. So yeah, rice, a little vinegar and some raw fish makes me a happy diner.
 
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#20
I confess that I am not a big fan of any of those, except for the potato in microwave.
That's ok, they're just suggestions.

Cheese is conspicuously absent and I don’t think I could live that way, lol.
Traditional Chinese dietary therapy generally frowns on cheese, so it's absent for a reason. I can understand though that people can have foods that they love and can't give up.

Same for any form of smoked pork.
A little pork is not necessarily so bad.

If you like rice, getting a rice cooker might be worth trying. I'm not sure raw fish is such a good thing, but I'm glad that you like it. :)
 

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