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I feel I'm going mad over not being able to retain things

Diesional

Well-Known Member
#1
Hello, everyone. I've actually been making some pretty positive developments over the past year -- a seriously wonderful and relieving thing, especially since I turned 30 a couple months ago -- and I may talk about them here at some point. I feel like I've finally gotten some of the basic foundations that I'm supposed to get, and I've had some high moments like I had not had in many years.

However, one major barrier remains that I cannot seem to overcome, and it's driven me so mad with frustration, self-doubt, and self-loathing at points that although I’m not actively suicidal anymore I still sometimes feel like laying down and dying in shame. Maybe that is a remnant of an old ingrained habit of scathing inner criticism that I'm just growing out of and can't expect to fully overcome so soon.

The short of it is that it seems like I cannot retain information. Certainly not to the standard I want.

I don't expect to remember every little detail of something I read or heard, or to understand seminal philosophical tomes instantly, but I do want to be able to read or listen through a paragraph of so much as a news article, or an essay on some fact of science or history, and internalize it like a normal person. But I can't really do that. I'll read over something over and over, and still not really receive it despite being able to read it fine. Or I'll get the basic gist of it but not really retain the details and nuance. I feel like at times while I'm reading I'll be able to do this in the moment, and even have something of an epiphany now and then, but I won't really remember it.

What's kind of funny about this is that I've been a pretty good reader and writer from a young age and I even successfully write for a living now (albeit dry technical stuff), but I'm actually a better writer than I am a reader. I've tried to use this to my advantage by writing about what I read about, especially because I generally like to create things and want to be able to put out writings that relate to these things that I’m reading about. This has only slightly helped, and in a way it’s worse because it means that I read and learn things at such a glacial pace because I’m focusing on writing about it. In the end I still can’t remember what it is I read that I wrote about. I’ve tried other things too, like reading aloud and finger-reading, reading slower and faster, but nothing really seems to take.

This sort of thing is very important to me because as part of getting my life in order I've been setting about being much more informed about the realities of the world so that I can better serve it and improve myself. Part of a side effect of my weird mental path and insularity in my teens and 20's is that I was not very in touch with the wider world, partly because I suppose I never felt confident to engage with it competently (largely because I seldom felt confidence to do much of anything at all). The stuff I did learn previously I forgot. As such, I feel at this point like I’m so behind on a lot of things and ignorant about a lot of basic facts, ignorant in a way that if someone found out I would probably be a laughing stock, and for good reason. What makes it scary is that I don’t even know what all of those things are. I did pretty good at school at different points, but that was mainly because I just studied for the nearest test, and otherwise I forgot a lot of what I learned.

I want to be someone who can offer something to people, knows what he’s doing and talking about, feels secure and proud of himself and his own thoughts, and is a responsible proactive world citizen contributing to something beyond just being another person going through the motions of their personal life. In order to do that, I have to be able to absorb, put together, and act on information in a competent way, and I just CAN’T DO IT. Sometimes it feels like it’s a waste of time for me to read a book just because I’ll have put in so much time only to retain so little that it’s about as good as if I hadn’t even read a book at all. It makes me feel like this defective stupid and cheap person, like I’m just someone who’s shut off from the light of the world, can't accomplish basic tasks, and just isn't meant to partake in good things because of my own shortcomings.

I have never been diagnosed with ADHD, though I and my parents believed for years that I had it. When I went to get tested for it in 2016, I got a “high functioning autism” diagnosis instead. I don’t know what it would take to get tested again or possibly get meds for it, or what the cost or side effects of those would be.

Overall I sometimes feel angry, sad, and hopeless about myself. I feel so envious sometimes of people who have things like an eidetic memory or a smooth-going brain. I guess maybe I'm supposed to just learn to be content with being kind of dumb and mediocre, but I don't see how I'm supposed to do that. I just want to be a good person and think of myself with pride and security, and I just can’t when I’m like this. Trying so hard over something so basic over and over and over only to fall on my face repeatedly while seemingly the world glides past me just makes me want to fall asleep and not wake up.
 

Astrid78

Spoonful of sugar will help the medicine go down
#2
Hello, this sounds a lot like me, when I went to college in my 30's I had a hell of a time due to the inability to retain information, and I'd be hard pressed to tell you what I had for breakfast as well.
Its not a matter of being dumb as its a matter of having a neuro divergent brain, which processes the world in a completely different way then the majority.
Don't give up or feel badly, it took me five years to finish a two year degree, it was hard, I cried in the bathroom a lot, and am embarrassed about the grades, but I did it.
For me it was utilizing a multitude of tips and tricks to remember info, so guess I just want to encourage you to keep trying and I don't think you are dumb at all, dumb people don't have insight.
Hugs @Diesional
 

Windhover

meandering home
SF Supporter
#3
Good to read how you're doing better, not suicidal.
That you write for a living makes me envious, in a good way.
I hope you are not going mad. I don't think you are, but maybe asking a neuropsych would help? Sorry that reading s so intensely frustrating.

Hope it is okay I put advice here.
If you want to retain information, you might start with trying to ascertain what kind of learner you are, so you can capitalize on it.

A friend of mine who is on the autism
Spectrum does not retain information that he hears. But for him, reading makes info. stick. When he was in school, at university, he took copious notes during lectures. Also, the lectures were available in a recorded format so he could go back over them.

When reading, it may help if you write down the salient points as you go. It's possible the act of writing will be what triggers your brain's memory to file the information.

^ That is also what helped me get through my 4 years of university btw.

hugs
 
#4
I just studied for the nearest test, and otherwise I forgot a lot of what I learned.
That's pretty much what all students do.
I don’t know what it would take to get tested again or possibly get meds for it, or what the cost or side effects of those would be.
As far as I know, there aren't meds for autism. You could try some alternative medical treatments though.
I want to be someone who can offer something to people, knows what he’s doing and talking about, feels secure and proud of himself and his own thoughts, and is a responsible proactive world citizen contributing to something beyond just being another person going through the motions of their personal life. In order to do that, I have to be able to absorb, put together, and act on information in a competent way, and I just CAN’T DO IT.
I'm not so sure that absorbing information is the path to salvation. Lao Tze and the Tao te Ching come to mind.
 

Diesional

Well-Known Member
#5
Thank you for your replies. To clarify, I meant seeking meds for ADHD, not autism. Despite being told by a professional after testing that I have the latter and not the former, I still think I also have the former. Holding attention on much of anything is difficult and I hate myself for it.
 

Astrid78

Spoonful of sugar will help the medicine go down
#6
It sounds like you are being to hard on yourself, everybody has something . The fact that you have recognized it and are actively seeking ways to get help for it says a lot, and takes a lot of courage as well.
i'm wondering if you have asked for a second opinion or maybe find another dr? Usually a psychiatrist or psychologist is best for getting a diagnosis. As for meds Vyvance is one that is used, it is costly, but if your in the states there are ways to get it at little or no cost. Another common treatment would be therapy, in which you would learn ways on how to cope with your symptoms. personaly I have found youtube videos/podcasts and research to be very beneficial in learning new treatments and such. Really hope this helps!
Hugs @Diesional
 

Diesional

Well-Known Member
#7
I actually contacted my last therapist who I haven't seen since May to see about booking a session this week. We'll see where it goes from there. This seems like something I need specific outside guidance on. I wonder if maybe what I really need is some kind of guide/coach on this type of thing, though I'm wary of how much that might cost even for just a few sessions.

I just feel paralyzed and like I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm not a real adult and can't feel secure or like an adult unless I solve this, and I don't know how to solve it. I know that I can't just do nothing, and that the most obvious and surefire way to get better at anything is to just do it, including things like reading and listening. But it seems like a lot of time for disproportionately low gain/return given my problem, and just this awareness kind of taints the experience because I have to persist in what I'm doing while knowing each moment that I don't have faith or confidence in it. It just feels like virtually everyone is better than me and more aware than me. I don't have a lot of convictions because I can't gather and retain enough information to have an informed thought on much of anything.

This has started spilling over into other things too, where I start doubting if I can or should do almost anything, and second-guess myself a lot.
 

Diesional

Well-Known Member
#8
This is making me want to rage. I am so stupid.

I can’t bring myself to finish books that have been taunting me for years and years and years, because I know from experience that I’ll likely retain so little as to have practically not read it at all. So I just lose passion quickly. I wish I could just be a real human being who can just do stuff and have something to show for it. I don’t know how to like myself when I’m not. It kind of takes the joy out of doing things, knowing I’m not up to par for them.
 

Diesional

Well-Known Member
#9
A year and a half later and I'm still tail-spinning aimlessly in this, going around in circles. It seems like I don't have the money or insurance to seek treatment for ADHD. I saw this Simone Weil quote and it resonated with me:

"I did not mind having no visible successes, but what did grieve me was the idea of being excluded from that transcendent kingdom to which only the truly great have access and wherein truth abides. I preferred to die rather than live without that truth."

Granted, I'm still much better these days in that I am no longer suicidal. I don't even necessarily want to die. It's just I can't envision being happy without getting this fixed, and I don't know what to do or where to go. More importantly, I can't envision being able to sufficiently contribute to the world unless I solve this. Has anyone struggled with something similar and found a way to progress with it?

It's terribly sad to think of all the beautiful books that I want to read and gain from, knowing I can scarcely learn or retain anything from them, while millions glide past me. It brings me back to that feeling of being so far behind almost everyone else, which is a feeling I can't stand.
 

Windhover

meandering home
SF Supporter
#10
Stopping by to say it's good to hear you're not suicidal.
Here, others are with you, reading what you're posting, offering understanding.

When you say you are tail-spinning endlessly, do you mean your functioning has decreased, or?

The quote mentions being excluded from the truly great, and from truth. That's a pretty harsh view of things. Are you aware of a tendency to go into 'black and white thinking mode?'

Reading books by listening to audio versions might be worth a try.
 
#11
I'm glad that you're much better these days. :)

what did grieve me was the idea of being excluded from that transcendent kingdom to which only the truly great have access and wherein truth abides
What if this transcendent kingdom is just an illusion? How do you know that gathering more knowledge would not in fact make things worse rather than better? What if knowledge is like food and we only need a certain portion to achieve our goals, and consuming and retaining all the knowledge there is is not only impossible, even trying to do it would just make us sick?
 

IRE1992

SF Supporter
#12
I think should be proud of your efforts towards improving yourself like this
whether you believe it's working or not.

Consistent repetition and problem solving helps with learning anything.
i.e. If you want remember how to code you need to make small programs to test yourself
or make your own simple sentences if learning a language.

Ergo rephrase what you think are the main ideas in your own words,
discuss it with others or on forum, read someone else summary of it.
Retention comes from lot's frustrating practice IMO.
 

Marga

Well-Known Member
#13
Hi, congratulations that you got better in many ways as you write...
As for your concern of not being able to retain information. First of all I would say that different people have different talents and predispositions. I, for example, am really really bad at retaining information. I don't like that about myself but I sort of accept it as the way my brain works - I know there are other things I am better at. So I see this as differences between people. When you say that you would like to be able to remember as a "normal" person, I would say being able to retain such information well is not necessarily a standard ability of most people. So I wouldn't call yourself below-average or deficient in this way.
Of course, I also understand that this is something you would like to be good at and you consider it important and useful. Maybe some techniques would help you to improve that. As someone already mentioned here - making notes, writing diwn some key points. This has always worked well for me. Or it has also helped me if shortly after reading an article fir example I tell someone what it was about.
Good luck and I would say don't be so hard on yourself about this.🤗🤗🤗
 

Diesional

Well-Known Member
#14
What if this transcendent kingdom is just an illusion? How do you know that gathering more knowledge would not in fact make things worse rather than better? What if knowledge is like food and we only need a certain portion to achieve our goals, and consuming and retaining all the knowledge there is is not only impossible, even trying to do it would just make us sick?
I don't want or expect to know everything even loosely speaking, I just want my brain to work properly. Normal people can take something in, learn from it, and apply it. I often feel unable to do that even when I really want to and even after I try multiple times, and that's assuming I'm able to keep focus. So at nearly 32 I sometimes feel kind of like a perpetually ignorant child who can't keep up with adult matters and conversations. I frequently feel like the most out of touch in a room. The whole matter has kind of left me disheveled because I no longer feel motivated or enthusiastic to do almost anything. I'll do it anyway, because I'm supposed to and it's worse to just not try, but there's not much joy or hope in it when I know I'm like this. I've done the taking notes method, but what happens is that I end up going through the material at a much slower pace, such that it takes forever to get through something, and I still don't seem to retain it much anyway. I actually think if anything for a while I was making things worse by making myself feel like I need to be doing some weird technique or writing stuff down constantly, since I've been taking that approach for a while lately.

And I don't feel like this all the time at least. Yesterday after feeling a bit better from venting online, I stopped the variety of wild techniques/systems I was using and just straightforwardly read a variety of informational stuff while silently mouthing it to myself word by word so that I could get a firmer grip on everything. I do think that this helped. I really do think I have some form of ADHD. My mind tends to race to where it's hard to focus or hone in on things. I discovered recently I'm more able and willing to watch and hear stuff if I play it back at fast speed (often 2x). Of course I couldn't tell you everything i read yesterday, but I tried to approach it with the following attitudes:

-"I don't even necessarily want to remember this. I just want to enjoy and admire the beauty of whatever I find." In a way of course I do want to remember, but I wasn't self-consciously and neurotically fixated on doing this. I just tried to enjoy it, because for too long I've robbed myself of even the chance of having joy by turning almost everything I do into some big important assignment for myself that determines whether I can "hack it" or not. Plus, the upside of not remembering something you enjoy is that you'll be able to enjoy it freshly if you read it again. Therefore, and following from that...

-"I can always come back multiple times, and I'll gain and retain more each time." It's kind of like with a music album. There have been albums I've revisited several times over the years where I now remember how they go and may even be able to recall the words. That's not necessarily because I made myself remember how they went (though I had a neurotic period in the 2000's where I thought I had to for some weird reason -- wow, I've had this issue for a while in different ways), but simply because I revisited them so much out of just enjoying them that I ended up absorbing them. Even if someone's a total genius, no one really expects them to be able to recall how an entire music album goes. There have been maybe a few people in human history with a hyper-eidetic memory who can do that, but there's nothing wrong with you if you don't (especially the longer and more complex the album is0. So expecting anyone to after just one run-through remember all the essence and finer details of a book, which takes longer to finish and has more variation in detail throughout, is absurd. Yet, it's the book that is usually regarded as the "one and done" or "reread and revisit it once in a while" ordeal, whereas an album is more expected to be something someone not only plays constantly, but should listen back to multiple times for it to "click". I haven't given these things as much of a chance to click. I haven't given myself as much of a chance with them. With the few works i have made it a point to revisit, it has always been neurotically to try to make sure I remember this time and that I make or do something substantial based off of it, which is a lot of pressure. This time I just went in to treat them like something that's meant to be absorbed slowly across time and across revisits.

-"Just because I don't remember it, doesn't mean I haven't changed from it." Some things are more absorbed than consciously remembered. If I gain something from something in the moment, that doesn't go away just because I can't recall it. The good of what I am today, or will be, is due in part to a lot of things that I may not remember, and everyone has something like that.

I just constantly feel like I'm behind almost everyone on essential things, all the time, and like I'm constantly having to play catch-up on multiple things that I didn't figure out years ago because I was more of a trainwreck at the time internally (even if it didn't necessarily seem like that on the outside). Even when in group conversations I feel like I'm behind on what everyone is talking about, almost no matter what the subject is, and I don't have much to offer. I want to be out there and more involved in the world, but for that to work properly I need to know what I'm doing and saying, and why. So me trying to learn more and get better is in part due to this (and also a general motivation of self-improvement), but when those efforts don't really bear fruit I just feel like nothing. Again, it feels like arrested development, like in some ways my mind kind of froze in 2005 and I'm stuck and can't evolve, which just gets more pathetic as one ages.

Maybe there isn't much point to me posting this here, because I know no one can really help make this go away. I do acknowledge there may be some psychological block at play here, so I want to seek treatment for this; but my meager workplace insurance doesn't cover psychiatric stuff (whether ADHD or self-esteem issues) and I don't really have money right now to pay for treatment out of pocket. So I suppose I've just taken to venting in these mediums because it's the best option I have right now, ha ha.

Anyway, thanks to all of you who replied and offered help. I really appreciate it.
 
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