I get scared I’ve taken therapy as far as I can go

[Jsinjin]

I’ll be the first to admit that I am bad at therapy. I’m not looking to reframe my view on the world. I hate the way my life has landed and I have nothing but regret and the greatest regret is that I’ve wasted so much time and life and I can’t get that back.

I’m constantly stuck between the need to take action and the need to change my point of view and it never lands where I can fix things.

I live with a spouse who has severe ocpd personality disorder. She is violently angry, a hoarder, volunteers for everything in the community and I am not allowed to touch any of the piles of trash, garbage, junk and accumulated bits of stuff for the last 30 years of marriage. We have a hole in the roof from a big tree that fell through on our porch that is five years old. She can not let me choose a roofer because she is absolutely petrified it will be the wrong one. And she is fine with these ways. To say she gets angry if you do things without her approval is like saying a pro football player is a bit competitive. A change like putting away a pile of towels has resulted in her screaming and throwing towels and yelling that maybe we don’t need any towels and we should all just have one towel in an hour long rant. Stuff is what is improtant to her.
Money is no object to me: I have started several companies and been very fortunate. I own houses, vehicles and have no debt. I also have all of these piles of connections and ties to these various entiries that I can’t seem to escape because of liability or quality or whatever else. But these things all tie me to them and it seems that I can’t escape. If I say no or cut off contact they use legal means to get me to do stuff.

the counseling doesn’t seem to help that. It always suggests “have you talked to her and told her how this makes you feel?” And the truth is she has ignored me four times when I have checked into the hospital with suicidal ideation so bad that I’ve been in or outpatient hospitalized. So yes she knows how I feel. She has said “I understand but I can’t let go of the stuff and I can’t handle the anxiety of losing the control”. So we are stuck

but lately it’s gotten so bad that I can’t stand being in my life anymore. The therapy of “why do you think that is” or “let’s talk about your next steps” is just not helping me anymore.

my goal is a clean home, no violent anger and to not be forced to do things by commercial entities that have a tremendous amount of legal control over me.

 

[seabird]

This sounds really stressful. Could you rent an office space, small home or an apartment and create a clear space solely for yourself?

 

[Innocent Forever]

There are many different kinds of therapies and many therapists- all whom work differently. If you don't feel like this therapist is helping you, can you discuss with her what would be helpful for you? The reason to talk to her about it is because she may be able to change how she works and if you decide to try with a new therapist you want clarity and not to take the issues forward.
You matter.

 

[may71]

I'm sorry you've been stuck in this situation for so long.

While meds and therapy are the standard treatments, there's more to treatment than just meds and therapy. If you can try other treatments that are at least very unlikely to make things worse, you may be able to find something that actually helps you.

 

[Jsinjin]

I get stuck I. Black and white thinking all the time. “ I don’t want to upset anyone or make anyone angry so I don’t want to do anything unless it guarantees no one will get upset.” Or “if I can’t do X I’ll never be a success” even if X is impossible. I hate upsetting my spouse and I know if I try to Stan up to her it will get her very angry.

 

[may71]

It sounds like you have a set of internal conditions that paralyze you and prevent you from finding effective solutions to external problems (various forms of demands from others).

My hope is that you'd be able to find a treatment that would help produce an internal change that would allow you to produce some form of acceptable outcome.

I think you mentioned being on a website for spouses of hoarders. Are you still on that, and has it helped at all?

 

[Jsinjin]

It’s called out of the fog. It’s a lot like this forum. It is about fear obligation guilt (fog) which is what keeps people in relationships with people who have oersonlaity disorders such as narcissistic, borderline, ocpd etc. the tough thing about that forum and to an extent this one is that they become echo chambers and reinforce the spirals I get into. A lot of advice is focused on how to get out of the relationships. I’ve come to the conclusion that is not possible.

 

[seabird]

I wish there was more understanding, validation, and professional therapeutic research/attention put on how to be safer and healthier, for those who stay in those kinds of relationships.

Sending a good thought and hug if it helps @Jsinjin.

 

[may71]

Ithe tough thing about that forum and to an extent this one is that they become echo chambers and reinforce the spirals I get into.

Can you explain more about the echo chamber effect and how that reinforces the spirals?

 

[Jsinjin]

I get down: then I find other people and places werre those people gather who are in a similar situation and it normalizes and reinforces the view that this behavior and life are normal. I notice it when I go to forums about OOTF (out of the FOG) or here.

I really would like to not think about suicide. I read a book a few weeks ago called “hello I want to die please fix me” by a Canadian journalist. I was amazed at the parallels I felt with her story of just having thoughts of suicidal ideation out of nowhere. But as I read it just like reading the cracked not broken book by Kevin Hines about his survival I sort of start empathizing and sympathizing with the fact that there is a group of people who feel this way and I feel kimda like that reinforces the ideation somehow.

 

[may71]

So do you feel if suicidal ideation were less socially acceptable, or you had more of sense of it being abnormal, it would be easier to fight?

 

[seabird]

If I understand, then, to help you stay with a positive focus might not be a recovery group but an entirely separate topic. Perhaps for ex. only, one that practices mindfulness, or meditation, or rowing or even a running club.
I am seeing parallels with when I was part of a recovery from d v group, and I stayed in it for a while. Eventually a number of women joined who had very recently left their partners, and it was very hard for me. I felt triggered and upset by their stories. Just almost the opposite of what I should've been feeling. I had to move on to therapy of a one to one sort.

 

[kcrawley88]

The truth about modern psychotherapy - Richard Grannon
i did not read your post here are some general thoughts i have about the modern world and psychotherapy modern society encourages people to be too high base level narcissistic many clients unfortunately have unmanageable life situations and it is very tricky meditative states for people to really benefit from counselling or psychotherapy if the client has too many hard to solve problems in their life in relation to career relationship and finances. other issues i have around psychotherapy are that there are no easily navigable paths in the modern world as people get older and i think that is very obvious after the pandemic. many people seem to care little about how soicety functions and prefer convenience and find it very difficult to really be honest with themselves and do honest self therapy which to me involves resolving ambivalence around parental regret struggles with raising children with so many screens and internet and so much denial about the impact of 2020. where people really appear to have split off from reality and take no accountability for what they allowed to happen. PSYCHOLOGY OF SOCIAL MEDIA is another issue i see in the modern world related to psychotherapy being beneficial as people do not even experience life in a real way. SAM VAKNIN WHY BOREDOM IS GOOD FOR YOU. and death anxiety is something many therapy clients may not have the capacity to deal with DEATH ANXIETY and to me that is the resolution of a lot in psychotherapy you die one day and while you were here you were part of a functioning system of one in one out and social conscience and political conscience and helping those who come behind. yet i look at northern ireland and its like england crossed with america so much denial narcissism grandiosity entitlement dissonance and delusion. none of which psychotherapy can help with.
HOPE THIS HELPS SOMEONE .

 

[kcrawley88]

The truth about modern psychotherapy - Richard Grannon
i did not read your post here are some general thoughts i have about the modern world and psychotherapy modern society encourages people to be too high base level narcissistic many clients unfortunately have unmanageable life situations and it is very tricky meditative states for people to really benefit from counselling or psychotherapy if the client has too many hard to solve problems in their life in relation to career relationship and finances. other issues i have around psychotherapy are that there are no easily navigable paths in the modern world as people get older and i think that is very obvious after the pandemic.
many people seem to care little about how society functions and prefer convenience.
theres such a high NOT CHOOSE LIFE SAM VAKNIN THAT I KNOW OFF SINCE 2020 17 28 52 53 63 67 76 ALL ENDED THEIR LIFE SLOW SUICIDE IS SO PERNICIOUS THESE DAYS AND IT CAN BE DONE IN SO MANY WAYS. LIFE IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE MANAGEABLE CHALLENGES SIMILAR TO THOSE 5 OR 10 YEARS OLDER THAN YOU AND YET I SEE SO MANY PEOPLE WITH SUCH DISPARATE LIVES AND SO MUCH DIVISIVENESS IN SOCIETY NOW IF PEOPLE WERE SPENDING THEIR LIVES RESOLVING AMBIVALENCE I DONT BELIEVE LIFE WOULD BE LIKE THAT AND THAT TO ME IS WAT GOOD PSYCHOTHERAPY NEEDS TO DO RESOLVE AMBIVALENCE AROUND/ WRONG PARTNER FOR YOU/ RIGHT PARTNER BUT PREFERRED TO NOT HAVE KIDS AND HAD THEM FOR PARTNER/ RESOLVING CHILDHOOD TRAUMA WAT HAPPENED HAPPENED AND IS NOT HAPPENING NOW EMDR/ RESOLVING AMBIVALENCE AROUND THE FACT WE ALL DIE ONE DAY AND ARE GONE FOREVER AND THAT WAS YOUR LOT IN LIFE YOU GROW UP AND YOU DO YOUR BEST IN YOUR TIME AND AS YOU AGE LIFE IS RECIEVED WISDOM AND PASSING IT DOWN AND YET I DONT SEE MUCH OF THAT EITHER MANY ADULT CHILDREN IN BROKEN BODIES IN THE MODERN WORLD
AND PSYCHOLOGY OF SOCIAL MEDIA ADDICTS
AND ALL DUE RESPECT TO VARIOUS PEOPLE KIDS MORTGAGE AND EXTERNALS ARE NOT A SIGN OF GROWING UP IN THE MODERN ERA AND YET MANY PEOPLE STILL SEEM TO THINK THEY ARE AND I REALLY WONDER HOW THAT DENIAL WILL END AS PEOPLE GET OLDER THEM AND THEIR KIDS
DUE TO SOCIETY SPECTACLE AND SO MANY SPOLIT BRATZ AND SO MANY PARENTIFIED ALL AGES AND ALL JSUT DO WHATEVER THEY WANT IT STRIKES ME IN NORTHERN IRELAND AND THIS NEW STUPID THING WHERE MANY PEOPLE WITH KIDS AND WITHOUT ACTUALLY DONT GROW UP LEAVING A SMALL HANDFUL DOING THEIR BEST AND YET AN IMPOSSIBLE TRACK.
ITS NOT ABOUT YOU MY GREAT UNCLE WHO DID NOT HAVE KIDS AS HE SPENT HIS YOUTH SHELTERING HIS SIBLINGS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LANE
AND USED TO BE A RESPECTED LIFE CHOICE AND WILL BE AGAIN IF PEOPLE WANT A FUNCTIONING SOCIETY INSTEAD OF USING IT AS A MEANS OF AVOIDING GROWING UP
ALSO THOSE WITH KIDS ARENT EVEN GROWING UP IN MANY CASES SO SAD THE WHOLE THING AND PSYCHOTHERAPY DOES NOT CURE IT
KNEW THAT AND IM VERY GLAD HE DIED IN THE EARLY 2000S HE WOULDNT HAVE BEEN ABOUT TO TOLERATE THIS REALITY AT ALL AS I THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING WITH AN IMPOSSIBLE TRANSITIONAL PERIOD IN HUMAN HISTORY. HOPE THIS HELPS SOMEONE SEE THAT YOU ARE NOT ALONE AND YET YOU ARE AS YOU CAN NEVER KNOW THE MIND OF ANOTHER SAM VAKNIN AND 3 ERRORS INT HE MEANING OF LIFE

 

[kcrawley88]

theres such a high NOT CHOOSE LIFE SAM VAKNIN THAT I KNOW OFF SINCE 2020 17 28 52 53 63 67 76 ALL ENDED THEIR LIFE SLOW SUICIDE IS SO PERNICIOUS THESE DAYS AND IT CAN BE DONE IN SO MANY WAYS. LIFE IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE MANAGEABLE CHALLENGES SIMILAR TO THOSE 5 OR 10 YEARS OLDER THAN YOU AND YET I SEE SO MANY PEOPLE WITH SUCH DISPARATE LIVES AND SO MUCH DIVISIVENESS IN SOCIETY NOW IF PEOPLE WERE SPENDING THEIR LIVES RESOLVING AMBIVALENCE I DONT BELIEVE LIFE WOULD BE LIKE THAT AND THAT TO ME IS WAT GOOD PSYCHOTHERAPY NEEDS TO DO RESOLVE AMBIVALENCE AROUND/ WRONG PARTNER FOR YOU/ RIGHT PARTNER BUT PREFERRED TO NOT HAVE KIDS AND HAD THEM FOR PARTNER/ RESOLVING CHILDHOOD TRAUMA WAT HAPPENED HAPPENED AND IS NOT HAPPENING NOW EMDR/ RESOLVING AMBIVALENCE AROUND THE FACT WE ALL DIE ONE DAY AND ARE GONE FOREVER AND THAT WAS YOUR LOT IN LIFE YOU GROW UP AND YOU DO YOUR BEST IN YOUR TIME AND AS YOU AGE LIFE IS RECIEVED WISDOM AND PASSING IT DOWN AND YET I DONT SEE MUCH OF THAT EITHER MANY ADULT CHILDREN IN BROKEN BODIES IN THE MODERN WORLD
AND PSYCHOLOGY OF SOCIAL MEDIA ADDICTS
AND ALL DUE RESPECT TO VARIOUS PEOPLE KIDS MORTGAGE AND EXTERNALS ARE NOT A SIGN OF GROWING UP IN THE MODERN ERA AND YET MANY PEOPLE STILL SEEM TO THINK THEY ARE AND I REALLY WONDER HOW THAT DENIAL WILL END AS PEOPLE GET OLDER THEM AND THEIR KIDS
DUE TO SOCIETY SPECTACLE AND SO MANY SPOLIT BRATZ AND SO MANY PARENTIFIED ALL AGES AND ALL JUST AND THIS NEW STUPID THING WHERE MANY PEOPLE WITH KIDS AND WITHOUT ACTUALLY DONT GROW UP LEAVING A SMALL HANDFUL DOING THEIR BEST AND YET AN IMPOSSIBLE TRACK.
ITS NOT ABOUT YOU MY GREAT UNCLE KNEW THAT AND MY PARENTS WERE NOT FIT PARENTS HE AND MY GRANNY TIRED OF SHAME AND LIES ABOUT THE ACTUAL REALITY OF PEOPLES UPBRINGINGS IN NORTHERN IRELAND ESEPCEICALLY MANY PSYCHTOHERAPISTS FROM WHAT I SEE
THEY RAISED ME NOT MY PARENTS
AND MosT PEOPLE NEED TO GET AN HONEST ASSESSMENT OF THEIR UPBRINGING IN MY OPINION IN ORDER TO LIVE A FUNCTIONING LIFE AND NOT ACTING LIKE A WEE WHINING BRAT OR THIS OTHER TREND OF SELF CONGRATULATORY PARENTS TOO MANY PARENTING BLOGS AND DENIAL
MY GREAT UNCLE DID NOT HAVE KIDS AS HE SPENT HIS YOUTH SHELTERING HIS SIBLINGS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LANE.
AND USED TO BE A RESPECTED LIFE CHOICE AND WILL BE AGAIN IF PEOPLE WANT A FUNCTIONING SOCIETY INSTEAD OF USING IT AS A MEANS OF AVOIDING GROWING UP
ALSO THOSE WITH KIDS ARENT EVEN GROWING UP IN MANY CASES SO SAD THE WHOLE THING AND PSYCHOTHERAPY DOES NOT CURE IT
KNEW THAT AND IM VERY GLAD HE DIED IN THE EARLY 2000S HE WOULDNT HAVE BEEN ABOUT TO TOLERATE THIS REALITY AT ALL AS I THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING WITH AN IMPOSSIBLE TRANSITIONAL PERIOD IN HUMAN HISTORY. HOPE THIS HELPS SOMEONE SEE THAT YOU ARE NOT ALONE AND YET YOU ARE AS YOU CAN NEVER KNOW THE MIND OF ANOTHER SAM VAKNIN AND 3 ERRORS INT HE MEANING OF LIFE HOPE THIS HELPS SOMEONE

 

[seabird]

I can't read these walls of text. Could you summarize, if that's okay?

 

[Lifeisthis]

Don't give up

 

[mosaic hearts]

I can't read these walls of text. Could you summarize, if that's okay?

I'm with you @seabird.

 

[Aurelia]

I don't think it's possible to ever take therapy as far as it can go. In the study of psychology, there is always room for improvement. Therefore, in therapy, there is also always room for improvement. No matter what stage you may have reached in your sessions, there will always be room for change.