Mental Health Support

The Undertaker

Try me, I'll make you famous!!!
#1
So as I mentioned a few weeks ago about being passed pillar to post amongst mental health care specialists in and around Glasgow, yesterday I saw my 8th mental health specialist and I really don't know how to take her, she is "extremely opinionated" and did not really listen to my views on anything and fairly quickly told me "if you don't listen to what I say you'll be back in a secure unit real soon" after and yet again it was catalyst for other communications breaking down, anti-depressants, and I again went through telling her why I don't take them and she turned round and called me a "foolish guy"

Meeting only lasted about 25 minutes before I told her I had enough of her "bullying tactics" and warned her if she recalled me back to secure unit on basis I'm not taking anti-depressants I'd go down fighting and swinging and I will do a hunger strike and if it ends horribly for me then so be it, but the question I so badly want answered is, why do these so called mental health always think they know what's best? So frustrating
 

Acy

Mama Bear - TLC, Common Sense
Admin
SF Supporter
#7
@The Undertaker — what treatment is it that you think you need? I’m not sure what all the things you’ve tried are and how they did/did not work for you so I’m loath to suggest anything.

A lot of people end up seeing a few professionals before they find one that they feel they click with and can work with. I know that I was desperate for help when I was referred to the best doctor I ended up seeing. I had seen two or three others before.

I didn’t want to be on meds, and explained my position. His explanation for taking meds was that even if they had some side effects, those generally go away after a few weeks. Being on meds usually helps patients begin to feel better sooner, and that makes it easier for patients to get into the heart of talk therapy and coping skills sooner. I accepted that, and he was right.

I’m sorry this doctor you saw called you foolish. That’s not very tactful. I imagine that many doctors see people they feel they could help but the people refuse the treatment. It must be frustrating for the doctors. It doesn’t excuse rudeness, though it might “explain” it.

Are all eight different specialists that you have seen offering something entirely different from one another or are they all offering the same kinds of things? My guess is that most are offering similar but not identical options. Like most illnesses, there are the things that are unique to the individual, but the similarities in symptoms and how a human responds physically and emotionally are on a spectrum that the doctors understand inside out. So they offer the standard things first that work for the most people. It’s not because they don’t listen or care…it’s their overall experience. As patients, we have our experience, but that is our only knowledge of the illness. Mental health specialists have seen hundreds of patients going through the symptoms of different mental health issues. They might not have personal experience…they have seen and helped others go through things.

So my questions to you stand: Are they all offering the same thing? What are they offering you? What have you tried and how did those things work? What treatment do you think would be best? If you don’t agree with the doctor, perhaps let the doctor have his/her say first, then ask your questions and express your concerns and opinions after. If we jump right in with why something won’t work, we could appear to seem unreasonable and as though we don’t respect them. If they think we don’t respect them, why are they going to respect us any more? I think there needs to be time for both sides to talk and both sides to listen. And then if you still don’t agree, finish up quietly, “Doc it seems we aren’t on the same page.” I can say for sure that threats from either side are only going to escalate feelings on both sides. If the doctor is going over the top, you could be the better person and try to de-escalate, rather than retaliate.

Just my thoughts, and you don’t have to agree.
 

The Undertaker

Try me, I'll make you famous!!!
#8
@The Undertaker — what treatment is it that you think you need? I’m not sure what all the things you’ve tried are and how they did/did not work for you so I’m loath to suggest anything.

A lot of people end up seeing a few professionals before they find one that they feel they click with and can work with. I know that I was desperate for help when I was referred to the best doctor I ended up seeing. I had seen two or three others before.

I didn’t want to be on meds, and explained my position. His explanation for taking meds was that even if they had some side effects, those generally go away after a few weeks. Being on meds usually helps patients begin to feel better sooner, and that makes it easier for patients to get into the heart of talk therapy and coping skills sooner. I accepted that, and he was right.

I’m sorry this doctor you saw called you foolish. That’s not very tactful. I imagine that many doctors see people they feel they could help but the people refuse the treatment. It must be frustrating for the doctors. It doesn’t excuse rudeness, though it might “explain” it.

Are all eight different specialists that you have seen offering something entirely different from one another or are they all offering the same kinds of things? My guess is that most are offering similar but not identical options. Like most illnesses, there are the things that are unique to the individual, but the similarities in symptoms and how a human responds physically and emotionally are on a spectrum that the doctors understand inside out. So they offer the standard things first that work for the most people. It’s not because they don’t listen or care…it’s their overall experience. As patients, we have our experience, but that is our only knowledge of the illness. Mental health specialists have seen hundreds of patients going through the symptoms of different mental health issues. They might not have personal experience…they have seen and helped others go through things.

So my questions to you stand: Are they all offering the same thing? What are they offering you? What have you tried and how did those things work? What treatment do you think would be best? If you don’t agree with the doctor, perhaps let the doctor have his/her say first, then ask your questions and express your concerns and opinions after. If we jump right in with why something won’t work, we could appear to seem unreasonable and as though we don’t respect them. If they think we don’t respect them, why are they going to respect us any more? I think there needs to be time for both sides to talk and both sides to listen. And then if you still don’t agree, finish up quietly, “Doc it seems we aren’t on the same page.” I can say for sure that threats from either side are only going to escalate feelings on both sides. If the doctor is going over the top, you could be the better person and try to de-escalate, rather than retaliate.

Just my thoughts, and you don’t have to agree.
Your thoughts and your thoughts and I'm not going to get angry or upset about that, most of them I have seem to think anti-depressants is the problem solver and I've openly spoken why I'm not wanting them, biggest reason is and I know this may not sounds pleasant but I'm a man and I like to do certain things as a man and anti-depressants turns taps off for certain things and so on, beyond that though I see and read people on anti-depressants for life and I'm not wanting that because my life is not that solvable if that makes sense.

In real life I don't have circle of friends never had a decent relationship and all the things connected with that so I've been lonely for a long time and I have zero prospect of finding someone as soon as someone knows I have Autism it is ended pretty much instantly regardless of how long I've spoken with them.

Even if anti-depressants had a positive effect on me and I found a partner because of anti-depressants I could not do certain things and so on, now some may think I'm foolish for thinking that some may not - on here that is open for debate and I accept praise and criticism on that front - but I'm past anti-depressant stage a long time ago, even if the perfect woman came into my life right this second and I agreed to take anti-depressants I'm not sure that would work
 

Acy

Mama Bear - TLC, Common Sense
Admin
SF Supporter
#9
Hi, @The Undertaker - some people are on antidepressants for life, and many others are not. I wonder if using antidepressants short term to get better and then getting off them would be of interest to you? It sounds like you are assuming you’d be on them for life. Maybe that is something that is worth talking to the doctor and pharmacists about?

Yes, some antidepressants (not all) might affect sexual function/libido for some people, not for everyone. And, sometimes, if an antidepressant does have that side effect, it might be one that goes away over time. This is also something that you might discuss with your doctor and/or pharmacist.

OK, so that is why you don’t want to take antidepressants. What other therapies have you tried and did you find any success with those? There are many forms of therapy for depression out there, ranging from purely medication, to cognitive behavioural therapy, to dialectical behaviour therapy to just talk therapy. Are any of those things that you have tried? For really severe and stubborn depression, there is also eclectroconvulsive therapy. It has risks for memory function.

I’d be interested to hear about the kinds of therapies you have tried. I’d also be interested to hear what the doctors have to say about whether or not you’d be likely to need antidepressants forever. I tend to want to be hopeful. :)
 

The Undertaker

Try me, I'll make you famous!!!
#10
Hi, @The Undertaker - some people are on antidepressants for life, and many others are not. I wonder if using antidepressants short term to get better and then getting off them would be of interest to you? It sounds like you are assuming you’d be on them for life. Maybe that is something that is worth talking to the doctor and pharmacists about?

Yes, some antidepressants (not all) might affect sexual function/libido for some people, not for everyone. And, sometimes, if an antidepressant does have that side effect, it might be one that goes away over time. This is also something that you might discuss with your doctor and/or pharmacist.

OK, so that is why you don’t want to take antidepressants. What other therapies have you tried and did you find any success with those? There are many forms of therapy for depression out there, ranging from purely medication, to cognitive behavioural therapy, to dialectical behaviour therapy to just talk therapy. Are any of those things that you have tried? For really severe and stubborn depression, there is also eclectroconvulsive therapy. It has risks for memory function.

I’d be interested to hear about the kinds of therapies you have tried. I’d also be interested to hear what the doctors have to say about whether or not you’d be likely to need antidepressants forever. I tend to want to be hopeful. :)
I've tried short term years ago I tried 4 different anti-depressants in 5 years and still had no effect on me if I'm honest first few actually made me more aggressive and 3rd anti-depressant made me sleep 17 hours a day so I stopped after 4th anti-depressant in 5 years.

I've not had many therapies most of what I get offered is anti-depressants and it leads to arguments and myself landing in hot water and so on, I've had nothing I can say worked or at least felt like it would work but Carole from secure unit even though she is not a councillor or anything she is a guard inside a secure unit inside a low security prison in Scotland she was one of the few who I spoke about things and she understood what I was coming from especially after I told her anti-depressants turns my taps off whilst doing certain stuff, although I did not say it as gently as I am here as I'm aware I'm needing to curb my words so I'm attempting to that, but outwith Carole I'm not really praising anyone because I've not had that good a support network in my own opinion.

Some doctors depending on severity of their mental health etc would be recommended on them for life, because I'm under suicide watch (have been since mid 2019) I'm meant to be on them for life, I'm refusing to take them so I'm on certain teams notebooks and I have to go fortnightly for meetings and more often than not they end shortly afterwards, I've openly told them in nice kind adult terms and other terms I've been cheeky and rude, I understand that might not be good on my part I accept that but they keep shoving it down my threat, my mental health is not that easy to solve, I began to speak late 2015 when I had visions and mapped out how to hurt people, I cried to sleep and said this is not right so I spoke out, 7 years on I feel I'm in a worse place and I don't see it could have been avoided by taking anti-depressants
 

Acy

Mama Bear - TLC, Common Sense
Admin
SF Supporter
#11
Well, it is up to you. We don’t know if you’d be better if you had continued with trying various other medications because you didn’t try more of them. What if one of those others had made all the difference and you were already better and off of it and not where you are now? That is the flip side of your perspective. There is a chance with any treatment and medication that there will be side effects. It’s up to you to know what you can tolerate and what you can’t.

I expect that if there were a better, effective medication treatment without the side effects you are worried about, the doctors would offer it to you. If you are refusing to try any meds now, how can you or they know if it’s the right one or how long you would need to be on it?

I don’t have more to offer here, so with my apologies and my best wishes that you find what works for you soon, I’ll drop out of this convo. Take care.
 
#12
I just wanted to say that I do understand the skepticism about anti-depressants and I'm going to speak openly because this is just information. Some anti-depressants stop one from climaxing entirely and for me this was Cymbalta - I even did a bit about it in a stand-up comedy set (just an open mike night but it got a lot of laughs).

Most anti-depressants that I've tried delay climax but don't stop it from happening. In fact it's often prescribed for men without depression, for premature ej. Actually the eventual pinnacle can be stronger due to the delayed effect. This is not just my own experience as I have read this on many medication forums.

I am what they call "medication resistant" and I probably tried 12 meds before finding one that had any effect at all. Wellbutrin gave me an eye twitch (rare side effect). Prozac made half my hair fall out (luckily it was pretty thick). I've been on Pristiq now for years and really all it did for me was to numb my emotions a bit, but that was still an improvement. It seems to have been less effective in the past few years but that may be due to hormones as I'm a woman "of a certain age."

To give an anti-depressant med a fair try, you really have to take it for 8 weeks to several months. Which is really a drag. However, if you look at the statistics many people are helped by the first medication they try. I envy those people.

I do think doctors are possibly too quick to hand out the meds, and also don't encourage people to come off them. My personal feeling is that meds should be a short-term solution while someone goes through intensive treatments of other kinds (such as therapy). But most of us can't afford long-term therapy so unless that service is offered free, we're stuck. However these days there are some decent sources of therapy and information online, like Mood Gym which is CBT therapy from an Australian university that was originally developed for high-school students. Now it's an app which is about $35/year. I've also found some YouTube channels to be really helpful, like Therapy in a Nutshell. I also subscribe to the Calm app and do the daily meditation and there are tons of other meditations including moving meditation.
 
#13
Sorry I got a bit off track there, but in answer to your question about mental health professionals, I think maybe they are just trying to use the easiest tool in their toolbox (meds) and when someone is resistant to that they may see you as intractable in some way. They want to check off that box before considering other options which might be more time and work (for them and also for you). It might help to say something like "Since I'm not eager to try another medication, what other options might help?"
 

The Undertaker

Try me, I'll make you famous!!!
#14
Well, it is up to you. We don’t know if you’d be better if you had continued with trying various other medications because you didn’t try more of them. What if one of those others had made all the difference and you were already better and off of it and not where you are now? That is the flip side of your perspective. There is a chance with any treatment and medication that there will be side effects. It’s up to you to know what you can tolerate and what you can’t.

I expect that if there were a better, effective medication treatment without the side effects you are worried about, the doctors would offer it to you. If you are refusing to try any meds now, how can you or they know if it’s the right one or how long you would need to be on it?

I don’t have more to offer here, so with my apologies and my best wishes that you find what works for you soon, I’ll drop out of this convo. Take care.
Because of the stories people on them for life, I'm really wanting to avoid that at all costs and you don't have to drop out if you don't want to
 

The Undertaker

Try me, I'll make you famous!!!
#15
I just wanted to say that I do understand the skepticism about anti-depressants and I'm going to speak openly because this is just information. Some anti-depressants stop one from climaxing entirely and for me this was Cymbalta - I even did a bit about it in a stand-up comedy set (just an open mike night but it got a lot of laughs).

Most anti-depressants that I've tried delay climax but don't stop it from happening. In fact it's often prescribed for men without depression, for premature ej. Actually the eventual pinnacle can be stronger due to the delayed effect. This is not just my own experience as I have read this on many medication forums.

I am what they call "medication resistant" and I probably tried 12 meds before finding one that had any effect at all. Wellbutrin gave me an eye twitch (rare side effect). Prozac made half my hair fall out (luckily it was pretty thick). I've been on Pristiq now for years and really all it did for me was to numb my emotions a bit, but that was still an improvement. It seems to have been less effective in the past few years but that may be due to hormones as I'm a woman "of a certain age."

To give an anti-depressant med a fair try, you really have to take it for 8 weeks to several months. Which is really a drag. However, if you look at the statistics many people are helped by the first medication they try. I envy those people.

I do think doctors are possibly too quick to hand out the meds, and also don't encourage people to come off them. My personal feeling is that meds should be a short-term solution while someone goes through intensive treatments of other kinds (such as therapy). But most of us can't afford long-term therapy so unless that service is offered free, we're stuck. However these days there are some decent sources of therapy and information online, like Mood Gym which is CBT therapy from an Australian university that was originally developed for high-school students. Now it's an app which is about $35/year. I've also found some YouTube channels to be really helpful, like Therapy in a Nutshell. I also subscribe to the Calm app and do the daily meditation and there are tons of other meditations including moving meditation.
The ones I tried stopped me completely, and if I tried to continue it became painful so I stopped, and I tried all for minumum period of 6 weeks and did not help they really made things slightly worse
 
#16
The ones I tried stopped me completely, and if I tried to continue it became painful so I stopped, and I tried all for minumum period of 6 weeks and did not help they really made things slightly worse
Do you remember what the meds were? There are a few different classes of meds that act in totally different ways. For instance Wellbutrin doesn't usually have sexual side effects. It acts in a completely different way than the SSRIs (Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil) and the SNRIs (Effexor/Pristiq, Cymbalta).

There are a few websites that discuss the effects of various medications, or you can just google a particular med.
 

The Undertaker

Try me, I'll make you famous!!!
#17
They might be called different, the few I was on were Fluoxotine, Peroxitine, Sertraline and another one can't remember but for the time I was on them I could not achieve what I was trying to achieve
 
#18
Tbh, I really don't understand such people. I mean, therapy is all about careful listening to your patient. I don't think she will work as a mental health specialist anymore. I hope she will be fired. Btw, have you tried contacting Online mental health support? My online specialist helped me get rid of anxiety. When my mother died, I was diagnosed with an anxiety disorder. It took me about 2 years to recover. I think it would have taken longer if I hadn't had an online specialist. Anyway, keep us updated.
 

The Undertaker

Try me, I'll make you famous!!!
#19
Tbh, I really don't understand such people. I mean, therapy is all about careful listening to your patient. I don't think she will work as a mental health specialist anymore. I hope she will be fired. Btw, have you tried contacting Online mental health support? My online specialist helped me get rid of anxiety. When my mother died, I was diagnosed with an anxiety disorder. It took me about 2 years to recover. I think it would have taken longer if I hadn't had an online specialist. Anyway, keep us updated.
Hello Corvian, No as I don't believe online is best method for it, sometimes this forum is good and sometimes I find it hard to get point across and help and so on.

They don't get fired, after a certain threshold communication breaks down and I shortly end up with another so-called specialist. First few I had were ok but one went onto maternity leave and the other one moved job but since then the rest have been abysmal, only good person is a guard inside a secure unit Carole who really is the most friendliest woman I've came across, I told her the reasons and I did not hold back and she understood far better than the others, she is the only one who I feel actually wants to help myself and others but she is a secure unit guard she can only do so much, but for not just myself but for others she has went above and beyond to help others.
 

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