Obesity and the NHS

[DrownedFishOnFire]

The reasons why people are fat is WAY more complex. I have researched HOURS upon HOURS on this topic different POV and ideas why. I have played around with my body on this... i was the biggest stocky one out of all cousins growing up yet everyone is rail thin or good weight/very musclar. My bones is alot bigger than the women in the family tho I am the black sheep. My mother will eat me out of junk food and my home constantly eating and still have small figure. If I sniff at a bag of doritios you bet I will count it as a calorie intake. People bitched I was too thin when I was overweight category honestly. Doctors just roll their eyes and say I am just an outliner. Nurses back then who didnt know me back in HS those old scales with bars on each category 100 200 300 that i had to wait til that scale fell to the end n them readjusting to get to the 200s


What was the shocking thing for me after watching a DOCUMENTARY on people who was on the biggest loser tv show over here in the US.... most regained weight. What was more shocking. That documentary did a study on this african tribe that has good diet living off the land the men should be expanding calories working miles upon miles hunting and working in the heat being tall dudes and all of that jazz you know? They did some measurements and weights with urine study and they found out.... they do not need more calories whatsoever than 2000 calories to keep their body fit. We would assume they need more calories. Nope. That documentary was covering why people gain after the show etc

Another tidbit/theory is people are born with brown fat. Those brown fat are the true burners. Im thinking thats what my mom has but not me.


Where I draw the line: super morbid obsese people who absolutely refuse to listen, those who keep getting enabled by their caretakers. You do not get to that level without consuming at least 10k calories a day to maintain that weight. And enablers are the problem. Those super morbid obese human beings NEED their rights stripped and locked up like a mental patient that is a danger to themselves and others. Those people are a danger to themselves. That is where I draw the line. Once you eat yourself to that point where you cannot even bathe or use the toliet, you belong in the hospital with controlled diet as you are a danger to yourself. Im harsh towards addicts who needs the help but have too many rights and dont want the help. SMH. World is full of people who have too many rights to destroy themselves. Im cool with super obsese who can function just fine like everyone else just lil slower etc its the point when they cant anymore that is when "intervention" needs to occur til they are able to do things for themselves again. Too bad if I offended some people here. I see it from a medical standpoint. You too mental ill. Its sad people have the right to overeat themselves to death slowly, shoot themselves up knowing that is an OD dose but not have the right to be suicidal. Messed up world.

 

[iwihbn]

The reasons why people are fat is WAY more complex. I have researched HOURS upon HOURS on this topic different POV and ideas why. I have played around with my body on this... i was the biggest stocky one out of all cousins growing up yet everyone is rail thin or good weight/very musclar. My bones is alot bigger than the women in the family tho I am the black sheep. My mother will eat me out of junk food and my home constantly eating and still have small figure. If I sniff at a bag of doritios you bet I will count it as a calorie intake. People bitched I was too thin when I was overweight category honestly. Doctors just roll their eyes and say I am just an outliner. Nurses back then who didnt know me back in HS those old scales with bars on each category 100 200 300 that i had to wait til that scale fell to the end n them readjusting to get to the 200s


What was the shocking thing for me after watching a DOCUMENTARY on people who was on the biggest loser tv show over here in the US.... most regained weight. What was more shocking. That documentary did a study on this african tribe that has good diet living off the land the men should be expanding calories working miles upon miles hunting and working in the heat being tall dudes and all of that jazz you know? They did some measurements and weights with urine study and they found out.... they do not need more calories whatsoever than 2000 calories to keep their body fit. We would assume they need more calories. Nope. That documentary was covering why people gain after the show etc

Another tidbit/theory is people are born with brown fat. Those brown fat are the true burners. Im thinking thats what my mom has but not me.


Where I draw the line: super morbid obsese people who absolutely refuse to listen, those who keep getting enabled by their caretakers. You do not get to that level without consuming at least 10k calories a day to maintain that weight. And enablers are the problem. Those super morbid obese human beings NEED their rights stripped and locked up like a mental patient that is a danger to themselves and others. Those people are a danger to themselves. That is where I draw the line. Once you eat yourself to that point where you cannot even bathe or use the toliet, you belong in the hospital with controlled diet as you are a danger to yourself. Im harsh towards addicts who needs the help but have too many rights and dont want the help. SMH. World is full of people who have too many rights to destroy themselves. Im cool with super obsese who can function just fine like everyone else just lil slower etc its the point when they cant anymore that is when "intervention" needs to occur til they are able to do things for themselves again. Too bad if I offended some people here. I see it from a medical standpoint. You too mental ill. Its sad people have the right to overeat themselves to death slowly, shoot themselves up knowing that is an OD dose but not have the right to be suicidal. Messed up world.

Yeah thats what I mean. More research into what we can do to help those with slower metabolisms is necessary so long as there's provable cause with it.
If so, then, what are your views on the costs of morbid obesity? Are those ten billion pounds on the NHS outliers, too? I too have no issues, so long as their weight does not negatively affect the lives of others, and its clear that there currently is a problem with spending bank on easily preventable issues, especially given the current debt level.

This is gonna be a hot take but we've literally reached over 100% debt over GDP. This wont be paid off in our lifetimes. Its gonna leave less funds to drop people out of obesity and help with stuff like cancer, or cystic fibrosis, or all of those other problems which we could fix, or at least drastically increase quality of life for. Those situations where its impossible to have personal fault (depression fits, imo). If its a choice between reducing the obesity budget proportion or the cancer budget proportion, then its gonna be difficult to choose.

 

[UKDude]

I think some people with weight issues do have a link to their MH, possibly cPTSD or similar?

They start to feel bad, their sympthetic NS interprets those bad feelings as danger, fight or flight kicks in, remembers that last time this danger appeared the good feelings from food got rid of it, so they are compelled to head for the chocolate cake.

On my 600lb life, for example, a lot of the participants can make no real headway until they have some form of therapy and confront / deal with / process the traumas they're carrying round inside their noggins.

For me it was alcohol - when I finally faced those feelings a couple of weeks ago (accidentally I might add), I had a 3 day panic/anxiety attack and felt like the world was going to end.

But after that it was like a switch had flipped in my head and after years of sitting here fighting myself over not wanting to drink but not being able to stop myself - my desire for alcohol had gone completely and I haven't wanted or had a drop since.

Weirdest thing I've ever experienced mentally and emotionally. Felt like I'd woken up from a hazy zombie like life.

Into the nightmare I've managed to create that I can now see clearly.

Almost makes me want a beer (joking).

 

[Sunspots]

I think some people with weight issues do have a link to their MH, possibly cPTSD or similar?

They start to feel bad, their sympthetic NS interprets those bad feelings as danger, fight or flight kicks in, remembers that last time this danger appeared the good feelings from food got rid of it, so they are compelled to head for the chocolate cake.

On my 600lb life, for example, a lot of the participants can make no real headway until they have some form of therapy and confront / deal with / process the traumas they're carrying round inside their noggins.

For me it was alcohol - when I finally faced those feelings a couple of weeks ago (accidentally I might add), I had a 3 day panic/anxiety attack and felt like the world was going to end.

But after that it was like a switch had flipped in my head and after years of sitting here fighting myself over not wanting to drink but not being able to stop myself - my desire for alcohol had gone completely and I haven't wanted or had a drop since.

Weirdest thing I've ever experienced mentally and emotionally. Felt like I'd woken up from a hazy zombie like life.

Into the nightmare I've managed to create that I can now see clearly.

Almost makes me want a beer (joking).

That's a fantastic achievement, well done!

 

[Sunspots]

Its gonna leave less funds to drop people out of obesity and help with stuff like cancer, or cystic fibrosis, or all of those other problems which we could fix

Don't forget that many cancers can be caused by lifestyle choices - lung cancer being the most obvious. Lifestyle also massively affects the numbers of strokes, heart attacks, diabetes etc.

 

[DrownedFishOnFire]

Don't forget that many cancers can be caused by lifestyle choices - lung cancer being the most obvious. Lifestyle also massively affects the numbers of strokes, heart attacks, diabetes etc.

Actually its secondhand smoke that causes lung cancers as well. 7300 nonsmokers die per year in the US from lung cancer not their fault

 

[Sunspots]

Actually its secondhand smoke that causes lung cancers as well. 7300 nonsmokers die per year in the US from lung cancer not their fault

True, that's why I said can be caused. But I'm sure there's more of a risk from actually smoking.

I was using it as an example as to why the NHS can't stop helping people with obesity. Where would you draw the line? Would you not treat them for any associated illnesses? And if you'd do that for obesity surely it should be done for smoking or any other addiction?

It's actually a really good argument for why early intervention and help is so important. By putting money in to sort the initial problem, you save money in the long term by not having to treat as many cancers, strokes, heart attacks, liver failures etc. Can even take it to the other extreme and should we be giving long term runners knee replacements?

To me it seems totally immoral not to treat someone who is ill, regardless of their lifestyle. But if they can get in there earlier and help to stop the illness from occurring in the future that's a good thing.

It's an absolute minefield and I'm glad it's not me having to make these decisions.

 

[DrownedFishOnFire]

Yea @Sunspots for sure a minefield.

Making it clear it not lung cancer folks fault thats all when implied placement was done on themselves. My bad if i misread oops. Duh me.

Definitely a whole complex issue to even tackle. Maybe really a pandoras box? Humans we want to have many freedom and rights we can have to live life. But at what cost? Yikes.


My dilemma is where do we draw the line to prevent further degradation in ones health when ones rights is more important than money? The addict? The overeater who cant move? The stubborn college age individual that refuses to go through Chemo/surgery to get rid of stage 1 cancer thats just begun that will bring further costs and complications if it progresses into stage 2-4? What about a parent refusing to let go of their brain dead child off life support? That costs alot of money?

What about programs that rewards people to be healthy!?!?! Saving more money in healthcare?

 

[neutralbuoyancy]

Mods, feel free to delete if it goes against community guidelines.
So, the statistics suggest that 9.7 billion pounds are spent on treating this. Having been in the NHS' mental health system since I was 13, and never seeing a counselor because they were so booked up, I can't understand why government programs to tackle this problem are so controversial, especially since it could help mental health issues and education.
Like, I'm aware that there are small genetic components to obesity, I'm aware of the concept of food deserts, and that its more difficult for people on the lower socioeconomic end of the scale, but at the end of the day, eating less than you burn will lose body mass?
We could also introduce third-strike rules for those who are obese and refuse to lose weight (like we currently do with alcohol or cigarettes), as well as setting up more groups and positive reinforcement.
What do others think?

honestly i think if you eat three meals a day drink enough water have proper exercise schedule then no matter what else you add you should be fine sorry if this might find offensive or wrong since this was something i was taught growing up and honestly i just see it as like im like I think what 118-123 or 125 pounds been a while since i chcked my weight but look i only have a muffin top and fat thighs at this number but someone else can be hella skinny at that weight or really large it differs body type to body type obesity is hard to control as u have said many different factors come into play srry i know my answer is a bit irrelevant since i only replied with parts i understood

 

[Sunspots]

What about programs that rewards people to be healthy

That's an excellent idea

 

[iwihbn]

That's an excellent idea

I actually love this! Thats what I was looking for, positive reinforcement!

 

[Lisa the Ferrociraptor]

I feel like there's one other category of people who have maybe been missed out, (probably a much smaller category, but still) which is people like me, my mother or my sister, who all seem to have a self-control issue where we have two settings, those being "i don't care about my weight, i'm not gonna bother" or "My weight is the most important thing in the universe i have to track my intake every second of every day". (I think it's some kind of serious genetic neurotic disorder) Like when i cared about my weight i would literally include the 1 calorie stated on a bottle of sugar-free flavoured water in my tally for the day. I started losing weight incredibly fast, and it was becoming extremely unhealthy. I would have kept right on going until i was one of those skeleton-people you see in tabloid articles. The only way to make myself stop was to accept that i may end up overweight, but not to worry about it at all. Similarly, both my mother and my sister would repeatedly balloon up and then shrink down again, quite dramatically.

Granted, none of us ever reached the category of obese, and i'm not too far into the overweight category now, but thanks to my liver deciding to be fatter than the rest of me, i am experiencing doctors telling me i need to lose weight or it may cause my liver to start cirrhosing in about 10 years. That presents a complex conundrum since i would technically be wasting NHS money for bariatric reasons, and naturally it wouldn't be good for me, but my only alternative sans somehow becoming less neurotic than i've been my entire life, and than my mother was for her entire life, is to engage in a debatably much more unhealthy mentality and start drastically losing weight to a dangerous level, or repeatedly losing and gaining large amounts of weight which is also pretty dangerous. Some part of me feels like anyone who has recovered from anorexia or bulemia may also be able to get that issue, although i can't say for sure never having been diagnosed as such.

 

[Butterfly]

I have been statistically overweight or obese most of my life, even as a teen. I wasn't fat but because of my height, body type and muscle that's how I showed up on the scale. I have put on weight over the past few years, mostly because of depression and psych meds. I did lose this weight however. Fast forward to the end of last year, I got put on a very potent antipsychotic called Olanzapine and I'm on the max dose, as well as 3 other psych meds. Not only did this cause me to feel hungry 24/7 and crave carbs, it's slowed down my metabolism to next to nothing. 4 stone later I am very morbidly obese through no fault really of my own.

So you need to be careful when coming out with these statements because it's not everybody's fault why they are significantly overweight. I am quite horrified actually. Now my mental health is more stable and the constant hunger has petered out I am going to actively try to lose weight by going on a programme like slimming world, as it's more a lifestyle change than fad diet.

 

[Sunspots]

I've always been overweight. Even when I was just four months old I had to be taken off of formula milk and put onto cows milk under medical supervision as I was blowing up like a balloon. I've probably been on a diet since I was about 10 years old. I was diagnosed with thyroid disease in my mid teens and my thyroid is pretty much non functioning at all now so that probably doesn't help. But I do go through periods of comfort eating and once that weight goes on now it seems impossible to shift.

 

[iwihbn]

I've always been overweight. Even when I was just four months old I had to be taken off of formula milk and put onto cows milk under medical supervision as I was blowing up like a balloon. I've probably been on a diet since I was about 10 years old. I was diagnosed with thyroid disease in my mid teens and my thyroid is pretty much non functioning at all now so that probably doesn't help. But I do go through periods of comfort eating and once that weight goes on now it seems impossible to shift.

IK some of my mates got poor thyroids. Is the medication not working, cause if it literally isn't working, thats what I would consider non-fault, because its clearly outside of your control

 

[DrownedFishOnFire]

@Butterfly

Im completely fablous and fine with folks with fat and being fat. Including you. You are working and taking care of yourself. It is not our business to tell you how to live your life. I find fat curves beautiful especially on women to make it clear.

I agree with people coming on here blaming metabolic syndrome on their medication caused them to overeat and slowing down their metabolism oh yeah is a common issue! Its so complex ill explain why: On other hand other why do plenty other folks have self control. I had self control when i was hopped on alot of psych meds myself when it came to food. It did not make me feel that true hunger I know very well going days without food it made me more acutely aware of having to eat tough being focused on reality not my other dimension. My record was 14 days. Human body can live without food for many days. Not water. Just saying sometimes I think when it comes to certain situations... cut out the BS and own up to it (that only applies to me). The docs gotta start making some of their patients own up to it too When i was in the hospital some patients had to eat all of the fucking snacks hoarding them (was no fat people I dont remember any morbid folks in my unit whatsoever the biggest patient had to be that schizophrenic dude was good 250 lbs 6'6 beefy guy not fat just muscular) some have homeless background been on the streets..this is city hospital i was in I saw the stadium of a MLB team everyday in my hospital room. Thought to myself for fucks sake theres already 3 meals, 3 snacks just fricking stop eating and let your digestive system rest for a bit.... then had to say to myself: hey who the fuck knows if they will have a square meal again when they are kicked out of the unit for showing stable behavior. Not to diss at anyone but damn many mental ill people live on the streets dont have square meals or stablity so they eat as much as the can around here. its not stable Thats the truth and it hurts why it is so fking complex. This mindset is probably why many people dont want to own up to their own faults. Too complex to even say what is OK and what is not. I work with patients heavily medicated and hopped up on pysch meds thinking the are hungry but when i talk to them they are not hungry.... they are bored. They need things to do. Go figure distracting them with games/crafts/cards til mealtime or snacktime. Food is their feel good drug for only short time. Then they bored again. Its not hunger sometmes. They have been in the same facility for over 30 years and know it is stable.

Way too complex to put everyone in a box.

We have to really start getting involved in those super morbid obsese folks who are at the point where they cant take care of themselves. Put them in the hospital and help them take care of themselves til they can do it themselves again that is where I really think intervention has to happen to save their life.

Take care and stay beautiful inside and out 👍