What's more important in a relationship?

[Seajay]

I have 2 guys that have a crush on me, and they're both great guys. I'm not used to having multiple people having a crush on me, so idk what to really do.

On the one hand the first guy is smart, funny, sweet, and caring. He sends sweet texts, says goodnight and good morning, has bought me silly little gifts, and really just seem to speak my love languages. He texts back in a reasonable amount of time, he's a history teacher, he has a house, he has good work ethic, is laid back, we share some interests, and overall is well put together. But he is kinda immature, mostly because he's had a good life and is pretty sheltered. His politics also really don't align with mine, especially on bigger topics like immigration.

Then the other guy is also really smart, talented, skilled, and kind. He's been a great friend that's really done a lot for me simply because he takes care of his friends. He knows a lot about so much; he works on cars, builds tables, is a gun smith, etc. He's very active but also likes to chill out and have quiet days. We share a lot of the same interests, and for the most part our politics align. The biggest problem is that hes married, but they're poly. So while I could date him, I've never been in a poly relationship so it makes me nervous. I like having a partner to myself, especially since I want kids. Granted they're not against having kids with partners, but still.... The wife is a decent friend, but she does get on my nerves sometimes, so living with her could be hard. He's also very sweet, but he's so busy with work and other stuff that he doesn't have a lot of time on his hands.

I know I could just wait and hope to find someone more perfect, but I'm 30 now, my biological clock is ticking, and both of these guys have already proven to me that they're good men who would make good partners. No one is perfect, and that's fine. I just can't seem to decide what houl matter more- feeling loved and cared for even if we don't always get along, or matching really well with someone but having a lot of outside factors that can cause issues

 

[AmberMarie]

That can be a difficult decision/choice.

What i have learned is you have to be able to sit down with someone, lay out what your needs and desires are for a relationship. Then the other person does the same. Then you have to discuss with each other what of those items you are able to or unable to fulfill. It means being vulnerable and honest with not only the other person, but with yourself as well. That alone can be extremely difficult for many.

In my experience, you do NOT want to compromise on what your needs are. Wants and desires can always find a compromised outcome that is good for everyone involved. However, if you sacrifice what you need in/from a relationship, you end up with an unfulfilling situation that you can feel "stuck" in. Especially once children are involved.

(Please understand this is all my personal opinion. It has been formed from over 30 years of not having a healthy relationship. And it is something want to attempt/strive for IF i ever have the opportunity of a relationship again.)

 

[Seajay]

In my experience, you do NOT want to compromise on what your needs are. Wants and desires can always find a compromised outcome that is good for everyone involved. However, if you sacrifice what you need in/from a relationship, you end up with an unfulfilling situation that you can feel "stuck" in. Especially once children are involved.

The second guy can give me what I need, it's just in very small ways. I also can admit that I'm kind of needy and like a lot of attention. The second guy has his own way of showing affection. I'm able to pick up on it pretty well, so it's not like I'm not noticing when he does sweet stuff. He's just not super outwardly expressive. The first guy though, is very outwardly expressive, and I think that's what makes it more attractive. It's easy to see and pick up on. (FYI I'm autistic so that brings it's own challenges).

 

[may71]

Relationship questions are tough to answer in any kind of definitive way because they're so personal and subjective. It can also be hard to make evaluations of people we don't know. It's maybe good to remember that anything we say here is based on our own perspectives and what little we know about your situation.

The two pieces of relationship advice that women most often seem to give to other women are "listen to your heart", and "never get involved with a married man". I'm not a woman, and maybe those pieces of advice are crap, but presumably there's a reason why those pieces of advice are so often given.

The "never get involved with a married man" bit may be influenced by the fact that traditionally, getting involved with a married man implied infidelity. Still, even without infidelity as an issue, some of the same issues may remain. Mainly that a married man is a part-time lover at best, and that disputes and friction can easily arise. It's hard enough for two people to get along, let alone three. Personally, I've never known of poly relationships that have worked out well in the long term, but that may be because I haven't known that many people in poly relationships.

But he is kinda immature

In what way?

His politics also really don't align with mine, especially on bigger topics like immigration

People can get along across political and ideological divides. In the old days, people could easily be friends with someone with different views. You might have lively debates, but when you got tired of debating you could do or talk about other things, and basically acknowledge that you disagreed while still recognizing the humanity and legitimacy of the other. And because of that, debate tended to make people more moderate, and even change their minds about certain issues.

Now it seems like people are encouraged to have the attitude that anyone who disagrees with them is evil, and that it's immoral even to call into question one's own ideological dogma. If one debates at all, it's to beat the enemy into submission, not to learn something new or acknowledge the validity of another's position.

I've heard that the number one predictor of a relationship staying together is the ability to communicate about things that you're unhappy about in a way that is non-aggressive, or even affectionate. I'm assuming that there's some carry-over with debating politics. So if you can debate without either party getting their blood boiling, or just agree not to debate contentious issues with each other, then it might be ok. If not, it could be a problem.

There are a few questions you may want to ask yourself.

Is the loving care of guy #1 just a honeymoon phase, and he'll turn into a jerk later?

Does guy #2 just like the idea of having two sex partners at once, and isn't that committed to either you or her? Or since you're not the one married to him, will you always be in a "back-up" role?

Is each ready to be a dad? Are they ready to have kids on a timeline that's acceptable to you? Most people may have a general notion about wanting kids or not, but it's common (and probably a good idea) to want to spend a couple of years together before making that level of commitment.

Most relationships break up sooner or later. Which one would make a better ex? Are you ok with it turning out that you're a single mom? If you're a single mom, will each be equally willing to pay up for child support? Is one more likely to become bitter, angry and difficult?

You could try living with guy #2, and if you can't stand even two weeks of it, it's probably not going to work out.

You could try dating guy #1 and see how things go, and presumably guy #2 would still be available if things don't work out.

There seems to be some chance for either relationship to be great or a disaster. It's hard to know.

 

[Seajay]

He's just kinda naive about how things actually work in the world outside of a text book. Some of his humor is childish, but not to an annoying extent.

I know differing politics doesn't mean that we have to be at odds with each other, and that's why we're friends. But I feel like it's be a bit much to cross the line of marriage

I've known both of these guys for about a year now, so I know them pretty well. They both want kids, though #1 would definitely be quicker to want them than #2. They'd both be fine as exs, they're both responsible if we did call things off and had a kid. I do worry about being "the second wife" to #2, but him and his wife are poly because they don't get along the greatest. They became poly to try and lighten the tension that they have. My feelings are definitely stronger for #2, and I worry my feelings for #1 are more out of convenience because we're both single and I know we get along. Blah...why are emotions so complicated? 😅

 

[may71]

He's just kinda naive about how things actually work in the world outside of a text book. Some of his humor is childish, but not to an annoying extent

Ok, that's not so bad. You're welcome to give concrete examples if you'd like to, but I think I get the picture.

But I feel like it's be a bit much to cross the line of marriage

It used to be fairly common for marriages to be politically mixed. Not so much now. The degree of polarization and echo chamber effects may be part of that. Imho, it doesn't have to be a deal breaker as long as you can both be tolerant of different views.

My feelings are definitely stronger for #2

You could hope that he'll give up on wife #1, but many women have gone down that road before only to be disappointed.

#1 would definitely be quicker to want them than #2

How much quicker?

It sounds like you're saying if you follow the "listen to your heart" path, you'd go with #2, but rationally you can see some trouble.

 

[Seajay]

You could hope that he'll give up on wife #1, but many women have gone down that road before only to be disappointed.


How much quicker?

It sounds like you're saying if you follow the "listen to your heart" path, you'd go with #2, but rationally you can see some trouble.

That's what I'm worried about, that I'll wait around hoping he will divorce her, only for him to end up not. He says he has it planned out for once their finances are stable, but in this economy and what not, it seems dubious

It'd probably be within 3 years, where as with guy #2, it'd probably be 2-5 years, and that's if he leaves his wife.

Yeah, that's pretty much the story in a nut shell. If he wasn't married I'd go with guy #2. But because I can see a lot more road blocks already, it makes me really hesitant

 

[may71]

where as with guy #2, it'd probably be 2-5 years, and that's if he leaves his wife

So he would only have a baby with you if he left his wife?

It's a tough situation no matter what. How confident are you that guy #2 isn't just stringing you along? Like he could be sincerely planning to leave his wife, and sincerely want to have a baby with you, even if it doesn't turn out that way. He could also be bs'ing you.

 

[Seajay]

It's more so that I'd only have a baby with him if we got married.
I'm pretty positive that he's not stringing me along, and that he is sincere. I worry that things will happen that will prevent him from following through though. Really all it would take is one big financial event, and then any ideas would go out the window

 

[may71]

I wonder if something like couples counseling would be worthwhile. It would be tough just to be in limbo for a long time.

Really all it would take is one big financial event, and then any ideas would go out the window

That's true.

 

[Seajay]

I wonder if something like couples counseling would be worthwhile. It would be tough just to be in limbo for a long time.

Counseling for me and #2? Or for him and his wife?

 

[may71]

Possibly both, but I was thinking of you and #2. I don't even know if that would be a good idea, but I can't really think of anything else that would get you out of limbo with him.

Whether #2 is intentionally stringing you along or not, he's still effectively stringing you along. You're left in limbo while he makes his bad marriage tolerable by having you on the side. He's ok with leaving you in limbo while he gets what he needs.

I'm also not convinced that #2 is really on the up-and-up. Some guys are just really good at manipulating women in relationships. Maybe he's also dangling the idea of having a baby in 2-5 years as way of stringing you along too. Some guys will promise anything as long as the bill doesn't come due for a while.

I'm also not buying the "when finances are settled" part either. That sounds like something that could always be tweaked so that the time is never just right. If he really wanted to leave his wife and be with you, he'd do it right away, not put it off.

It might be good to tell #2 that if he wants to leave his wife, you'd like to be with him, but while he's making up his mind, you're going to date other people and not him. That just my opinion on it. If his bad marriage becomes intolerable sooner rather than later as a result, then so much the better, perhaps for everyone involved.

Maybe guy #1 should know the score too. Like if you told him you're interested in him, but things might change if #2 leaves his wife. If #1 wants to get deeply into a serious relationship asap, that might not be a good arrangement for him, but if he can tolerate being more casual for a while, maybe that would work?

Idk, I'm not a relationship expert at all, it's just my 2 cents.

 

[Walker]

Girl, I'll be honest here, you never ever wanna date a man that you're planning your life with that has "he needs to leave his wife" in the cards for you two to be happy. I get that you're saying you can see each other but YOU want to have him to yourself and honestly that's not cool (to them).

The main deterrent to the first fella is the politics and whew - lots of us can understand that in the world right now. For me it would be more about how he ACTS about political conversation than just having these VIEWS. Does he LISTEN to you when you're talking about your views on immigration (and other things?) or does he just want to argue about why he's right and this is why? Someone whose views differ from yours are fine, in my opinion (which means nothing cause I'm not involved here) because a little bit of differences together make things more interesting but if he's a butthole about it then that makes it more complicated.

 

[Seajay]

I get that you're saying you can see each other but YOU want to have him to yourself and honestly that's not cool (to them).

...a little bit of differences together make things more interesting but if he's a butthole about it then that makes it more complicated.

The first guy has told me that him and his wife have talked about getting a divorce multiple times, but he hasn't really set a solid timeline for that. He says that it'll depend on how fast they can get their finances settled so that his wife could be set on the right foot when they get divorced. But again, there's really not a timeline, and finances are a fickle thing. So it could just be a waiting game, or I end up being poly for a long time.

For the second guy, he can get a bit heated about political conversations, but he's not mean about it. He'll hear you out and talk for a long time (like a couple of hours). And yeah, differing views isn't a bad thing, it helps bring different perspectives to situations, which is good.

 

[Walker]

I know this is really 2025 and all but is there anything keeping you from seeing both these dudes? You don't have to get serious with them, just go on some dates, get to know them better. The chances of both of them being Prince Charming are basically negligible so you just have to have time to figure out which has the highest chance, right?

 

[Seajay]

No, I guess I could. I've just never talked to two people before. I've only ever had one person interested at a time so I'm used to just talking to one person at a time

 

[Lisa the Goatgirl]

Apologies for the massive wall of text, but i have a lot of thoughts about how poly can and can't work, and just hope it helps.
So i can weigh in here as someone who's actually done poly. Granted only the once, but it was a real learning experience. And i'd probably define myself as either ambiamorous or monogamish, so basically i'm generally good with monogamy, but open to and comfortable with poly.

Poly relationships can be absolutely great when they work. You're with 2 or more people who cherish you and embrace you, make you feel wanted, and provide everything you'd want in a relationship, with less pressure on each partner to be the sole provider of whatever it is you're looking for. And the things you can get up to together are way more adventurous and fun. Plus because they'll have different tastes and interests, you can enjoy the interests you share as a group, or with just one, but not the other, and vice versa, which can be some fun one-on-one bonding that brings you all closer together, and makes you feel more accepted as a person.

But that's only when the circumstances are right. Everyone has to be engaging in the poly dynamic with the right mentality, because even one person with the wrong mindset can burn the entire thing to the ground. I know that from bitter experience. Friction you might find in most relationships get magnified several times over, and it can lead to some extremely sour feelings.

And the more i read about how this poly dynamic you're being offered would work, the more i think it does not sound healthy at all, i'm sorry to say. You and his wife wouldn't be there for each other at all, which can work, but it sounds like he's already in a bad place with her, and you and her are going to be going in with bad feelings towards each other. The fact he's planning to divorce her for you would likely make her bitter, and the fact he's got this longer-standing relationship with her first sounds like it could make you bitter, especially because of this issue:

I also can admit that I'm kind of needy and like a lot of attention.

He'd be there for both of you, ideally equally, which means he'd lavish attention and affection on each of you that he wouldn't be giving to the other. That's another thing that works when you're in it with a mindset of "that's fine, i'll get my turn too eventually, and it'll be great", especially when you can also get a turn with the other person too. But if you're needy and like getting lots of attention, there are likely going to be situations where you're craving attention he can't give you right now, because he has to give it to her, and breaking off from doing so to tend to you would smell of favouritism. So i can see that causing some headaches and a lot of jealousy in both directions, jealousy in poly being a real killer of the mood.

So overall, i'm sorry, but i don't think this really has the circumstances needed to work as a poly dynamic, it sounds like a desperate bid to fix a failing marriage, and those are usually doomed to failure. Now if you want to discuss the idea of dating him with the hope of being a monogamous couple once he divorces her, i actually diverge from everyone else here to say that actually can be the basis of a stable relationship, cos i've seen it happen, but with the caveat that you have to be really sure the divorce is going to happen. And the fact they're opening the relationship up to poly suggests they're still contemplating patching it back together, so that doesn't inspire a ton of confidence.

 

[Lisa the Goatgirl]

Ok, i'm sorry for adding even more on top of the Mount Olympus of text i already threw out there, and i'm really trying to be less political on the site, so i'm gonna try very hard to avoid having an argument here, but i have to address this:

People can get along across political and ideological divides. In the old days, people could easily be friends with someone with different views. You might have lively debates, but when you got tired of debating you could do or talk about other things, and basically acknowledge that you disagreed while still recognizing the humanity and legitimacy of the other. And because of that, debate tended to make people more moderate, and even change their minds about certain issues.

Now it seems like people are encouraged to have the attitude that anyone who disagrees with them is evil, and that it's immoral even to call into question one's own ideological dogma. If one debates at all, it's to beat the enemy into submission, not to learn something new or acknowledge the validity of another's position.

It used to be fairly common for marriages to be politically mixed. Not so much now. The degree of polarization and echo chamber effects may be part of that. Imho, it doesn't have to be a deal breaker as long as you can both be tolerant of different views.

This all sounds very nice in theory, but there are definitely some issues that go beyond the scope of "agree to disagree", because they have very real consequences, often for people we care about, or even ourselves. How can you "agree to disagree" on trans rights, when you are trans or know people who are? How can you "agree to disagree" on immigration, when people you care about are being deported over changes to immigration policy, or you yourself are at threat of deportation? How is Seajay meant to "agree to disagree" if she feels she should have rights as a woman, and guy #1 thinks she should be barefoot and constantly pregnant with no say in anything?

I mean, i'm not making assertions about his character or saying he's an awful person for disagreeing with you Seajay, i don't even know how your political opinions differ. Just that it is important to ask yourself the question on if the ways you disagree politically are things you can live with him feeling differently about, or it's the kind of thing that supports real harm, that will always leave a fundamentally sour taste in your mouth. I don't agree with the people closest to me on everything politically, and i've had heated arguments over politics with some of my closest friends, but at the end of the day, i know that we agree on the things that really matter, and all just want what's best for society at large, and that's why they're worth having as friends. I think so long as you see guy #1 the same way, you should be fine. He just needs to get some real-world experience under his belt to grow up a bit, and you can encourage that.

 

[may71]

This all sounds very nice in theory, but there are definitely some issues that go beyond the scope of "agree to disagree"

Imho, support threads are there to support the OP, so I don't think we should get into general or abstract discussions. I get that you're very passionate about political and social issues, and you're certainly entitled to be, but support threads should be focused on support to the OP.

If you need support about specific, or general issues about relationships, imho it would be ok to start a thread about that. I know this is getting into site moderation policy, which I'm not qualified to make declarations about, but that's my opinion about what mod policy is and should be.

I don't agree with the people closest to me on everything politically, and i've had heated arguments over politics with some of my closest friends, but at the end of the day, i know that we agree on the things that really matter, and all just want what's best for society at large, and that's why they're worth having as friends

I think Seajay might be able to do more or less this with guy #1. Personally, when I've had disagreements with friends about issues that are important to us, we've just been able to agree to not talk about them. That worked just fine even though we were both very passionate about them. I'm not sure if everyone can do that, but it certainly can be done.

As long as you have confidence in the basic humanity of another person, I think it's possible to have a relationship to them, but just accept that they're wrong about something.

 

[Seajay]

So overall, i'm sorry, but i don't think this really has the circumstances needed to work as a poly dynamic, it sounds like a desperate bid to fix a failing marriage, and those are usually doomed to failure. Now if you want to discuss the idea of dating him with the hope of being a monogamous couple once he divorces her, i actually diverge from everyone else here to say that actually can be the basis of a stable relationship, cos i've seen it happen, but with the caveat that you have to be really sure the divorce is going to happen. And the fact they're opening the relationship up to poly suggests they're still contemplating patching it back together, so that doesn't inspire a ton of confidence.

They've been poly for a few years, so it's not new to them. But I agree with your assessment