when hope is gone ...

[jake.007]

i honestly try to avoid feeling sorry for myself or complaining about my "pain" or whining about how unfair all of it is. i understand that everyone's lot in life is different and, for the most part, my road has been much better and easier than almost everyone else. i certainly have not suffered the hardships and trauma that so many others have ... my "suffering" is of my own making. i have created the conditions that have pushed me to the edge on and off over the past few decades. consequently, i can hardly complain, can i? and i sincerely believe that complaining and blaming are entirely unproductive. i have always espoused the belief that every problem, every mistake can be repaired and that spending time complaining about such problems or deciding who to blame for them does nothing to fix them. instead, it is always a better course to look for and implement solutions.

with that background, i still have reached the end. as i said, my troubles are all my own fault -- i am, simply, a truly horrible, reprehensible person who has inflicted pain on anyone in my orbit ... mostly on the people i love the most and who i was supposed to take care of, the ones whose lives i was supposed to make better. i failed miserably and continue to make things worse every day. i have come to the realization that, as long as i am here, they will suffer more and that the only hope for their happiness is to remove me from their lives. there is no world in which i exist where the future is not dark and grim. there is no hope while i am here. knowing that as clearly and certainly as i do, isn't the right decision to remove myself from their lives? isn't that maybe the first, and only, good thing i will have ever done for them?

 

[Widowedvegan]

i honestly try to avoid feeling sorry for myself or complaining about my "pain" or whining about how unfair all of it is. i understand that everyone's lot in life is different and, for the most part, my road has been much better and easier than almost everyone else. i certainly have not suffered the hardships and trauma that so many others have ... my "suffering" is of my own making. i have created the conditions that have pushed me to the edge on and off over the past few decades. consequently, i can hardly complain, can i? and i sincerely believe that complaining and blaming are entirely unproductive. i have always espoused the belief that every problem, every mistake can be repaired and that spending time complaining about such problems or deciding who to blame for them does nothing to fix them. instead, it is always a better course to look for and implement solutions.

with that background, i still have reached the end. as i said, my troubles are all my own fault -- i am, simply, a truly horrible, reprehensible person who has inflicted pain on anyone in my orbit ... mostly on the people i love the most and who i was supposed to take care of, the ones whose lives i was supposed to make better. i failed miserably and continue to make things worse every day. i have come to the realization that, as long as i am here, they will suffer more and that the only hope for their happiness is to remove me from their lives. there is no world in which i exist where the future is not dark and grim. there is no hope while i am here. knowing that as clearly and certainly as i do, isn't the right decision to remove myself from their lives? isn't that maybe the first, and only, good thing i will have ever done for them?

Hello @jake.007 …
Perhaps removing yourself from your loved one’s lives would be a good thing…
However, not I repeat Not by ending your life!
If you want to stop hurting your loved ones - taking your own life will only be continuing your past of Hurting them!
Losing someone to Suicide is probably one of the Worst things that can happen to someone… If you die by suicide the people who are left behind will be Shattered…
This is something that I have first hand experience with… I have lost two family members to suicide…
Please reconsider - If these people who you have hurt will truly be better off without you in their lives - Then by all means get out of their lives… Leave…
Just please don’t leave through suicide…

 

[may71]

i honestly try to avoid feeling sorry for myself or complaining about my "pain" or whining about how unfair all of it is.

If you really feel like complaining is unproductive I think it's ok not to complain. However, it's also ok to complain if you want to and it helps. You don't have to have it worse than anyone else and it doesn't have to be unfair or more unfair than what other people experience.

knowing that as clearly and certainly as i do, isn't the right decision to remove myself from their lives?

If they love you, killing yourself would be the worst thing you could do to them. I'm not sure if your parents are among the loved ones you feel you've wronged, but people never really get over the death of a child. It's even been scientifically studied, it's the worse stress there is, worse than divorce, losing a job, or the death of a spouse.

An apology can go a really long way. It sounds to me if you can address what's happened in the past, that's the best thing you can do for both yourself and the people that you love.

You're welcome to say more about what's led up to this if you'd like to.

 

[jake.007]

Hello @jake.007 …
Perhaps removing yourself from your loved one’s lives would be a good thing…
However, not I repeat Not by ending your life!
If you want to stop hurting your loved ones - taking your own life will only be continuing your past of Hurting them!
Losing someone to Suicide is probably one of the Worst things that can happen to someone… If you die by suicide the people who are left behind will be Shattered…
This is something that I have first hand experience with… I have lost two family members to suicide…
Please reconsider - If these people who you have hurt will truly be better off without you in their lives - Then by all means get out of their lives… Leave…
Just please don’t leave through suicide…

thank you. knowing that it will hurt them has been one of the primary things that has stopped me in the past, but i really believe that pain will diminish over time, whereas the suffering i inflict on them if i stay will go on indefinitely and is far worse, i think. i cannot simply walk away from their lives. first, i think they will make that difficult. they are far, far better people than i am and will worry and will try to keep me in their lives. and because i am horribly selfish and weak, i will not stay away. i do understand everything you are saying but, on balance, i think a permanent exit is the best thing ... and the only thing that will work. there is a certain event coming this month that demands that i act now.

 

[jake.007]

If you really feel like complaining is unproductive I think it's ok not to complain. However, it's also ok to complain if you want to and it helps. You don't have to have it worse than anyone else and it doesn't have to be unfair or more unfair than what other people experience.


If they love you, killing yourself would be the worst thing you could do to them. I'm not sure if your parents are among the loved ones you feel you've wronged, but people never really get over the death of a child. It's even been scientifically studied, it's the worse stress there is, worse than divorce, losing a job, or the death of a spouse.

An apology can go a really long way. It sounds to me if you can address what's happened in the past, that's the best thing you can do for both yourself and the people that you love.

You're welcome to say more about what's led up to this if you'd like to.

thank you for your thoughts. first, complaining is not something i want to do and, in my case, it would not help ... i would only be complaining about myself. i do understand and appreciate all that you have said here and i hate that going forward with my plans will cause them a great deal of pain ... at least in the short term, but i have no other solution. what i have done cannot be remedied by an apology and there is no way for me to make things better or set their lives back on their proper tracks. i am too weak and generally awful to change or to leave them all be so this really is the only way. believe me, i have tried for a very long time to find a better solution. there is none. i am tired ... tired of seeing the damage and pain i have caused and tired of living without hope.

 

[may71]

i hate that going forward with my plans will cause them a great deal of pain ... at least in the short term

The pain would probably be much more long term than you think.

If you're willing to give some details about this, it might be easier to the understand the situation and to give some relevant feedback. I understand if you're not willing to talk about this, though it might help to know what's going on.

The thing that suicidal people have in common is the belief that suicide is the only way out. Usually that's not the case though.

 

[Windhover]

there is a certain event coming this month that demands that i act now.

If you are actively planning around this, then please call a doctor or go for help immediately. Suicide is not okay and finding support, pathways, strength, patience, whatever it takes, is what we are about here.

You are safe here to speak about what and why you feel. It is not seen as complaining, more as troubleshooting.

best

 

[1Lefty]

thank you. knowing that it will hurt them has been one of the primary things that has stopped me in the past, but i really believe that pain will diminish over time, whereas the suffering i inflict on them if i stay will go on indefinitely and is far worse, i think. i cannot simply walk away from their lives. first, i think they will make that difficult. they are far, far better people than i am and will worry and will try to keep me in their lives. and because i am horribly selfish and weak, i will not stay away. i do understand everything you are saying but, on balance, i think a permanent exit is the best thing ... and the only thing that will work. there is a certain event coming this month that demands that i act now.

I don't think a permanent exit is the right thing to do
In fact, whoever you've wronged will be wronged again if you choose to end your life
The best way to deal with the pain you've caused is to counter it with healing actions
Even if you can't address them personally, helping anyone else is a positive thing
I hope you'll choose to remain, and make your amends as is possible
Guilt and remorse can feel like good reasons for suicide, but they're really not
Wishing the best for you


peace

 

[jake.007]

I don't think a permanent exit is the right thing to do
In fact, whoever you've wronged will be wronged again if you choose to end your life
The best way to deal with the pain you've caused is to counter it with healing actions
Even if you can't address them personally, helping anyone else is a positive thing
I hope you'll choose to remain, and make your amends as is possible
Guilt and remorse can feel like good reasons for suicide, but they're really not
Wishing the best for you


peace

thank you. i understand what you are saying but i think a permanent exit is preferable to the permanent pain my continued existence will cause them. i cannot undo any of it and anything i do now will never make up for it. i have nothing good within me to offer to anyone else ... i cannot help anyone. guilt and remorse may not be good enough reasons on their own, but when they are joined by absolute hopelessness, i think the whole collection of reasons justifies it.

 

[may71]

i think a permanent exit is preferable to the permanent pain my continued existence will cause them. i cannot undo any of it and anything i do now will never make up for it.

You say that but I don't think this is true.

Let's say the roles were reversed. Would you want one of your loved ones to kill themselves over this? Probably not.

I'm posting a link to this thread
https://www.suicideforum.com/community/threads/suicidal-over-debt.134524/

...just because it's an example of someone thinking they wouldn't be forgiven, but they were.

 

[jake.007]

You say that but I don't think this is true.

Let's say the roles were reversed. Would you want one of your loved ones to kill themselves over this? Probably not.

I'm posting a link to this thread
https://www.suicideforum.com/community/threads/suicidal-over-debt.134524/

...just because it's an example of someone thinking they wouldn't be forgiven, but they were.

it is hard, maybe impossible, to imagine the roles are reversed. through no fault of mine, my children have all grown up to be wonderful, caring, fundamentally good people. none of them wold ever do any of the things i have done ... none of them are so inherently evil -- like me -- that the world will immediately be a better place without them, as it will be when i am gone. i would never, ever want any of them to kill themselves ... they all are good, they are light where i am darkness and evil. if any of them were gone, the world would be diminished. not so for me ... the world will be better when i am not in it.

 

[may71]

Even if you've done something very bad, you may be underestimating how far a sincere apology and efforts to make amends can go. Suicide doesn't erase any bad things you've done, it's much better to face up to them.

 

[jake.007]

Even if you've done something very bad, you may be underestimating how far a sincere apology and efforts to make amends can go. Suicide doesn't erase any bad things you've done, it's much better to face up to them.

i will, of course, apologize to each of them, sincerely and from the heart. i want them to know that i fully understand the pain i have caused, and that i am so sorry for all of it, and that it is okay -- it is right -- for them to hate me (i want them to). but apologizing does not undo the harm and does not make anything better, certainly not in the past and not going forward. i have to be gone to at least stop the pain in the future.

 

[may71]

but apologizing does not undo the harm and does not make anything better

I don't think that's true though. A sincere apology can go a really long way.

Pain in the future...do you think there's any way you'd be able to change so that you wouldn't cause harm?

 

[jake.007]

i wish that there was a way that i could change the future, make it better, end the pain. but the only way is for me to leave.

 

[MisterBGone]

You're a wonderful thinker-- @jake.007 ...(& hopefully, I can come back around laterv with a fresh/er mind, and a fresher perspective, in order to offer you any keen insights that I may have. Though I don't know what I'll be able to do, or when. Hopefully, I trust you won't do anything suddenly, or definitively, before them. Take some decent care of yourself, and I'll see you when I can. . . provided that - I don't forget! gah~*>

 

[may71]

i wish that there was a way that i could change the future, make it better, end the pain. but the only way is for me to leave.

Do you think you and your kids would be willing to try going to family therapy together?