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Practical Advice Caplyta experiences

LumberJack

Huggy Bear 🐻
#1
I have treatment resistant depression(trd). I am currently trialing Caplyta as an augmentation for bupropion, which has been the only antidepressant that has helped me. Unfortunately, on the max dose of bupropion I still have debilitating depression. Hence the need to augment.

I’m wondering if anyone else is on this journey. It’s only approved for schizophrenia and bipolar disorders, but post release data suggest that it tends to increase manic episodes in bipolar patients, which indicates it may help with TRD. So, I am prescribed this off-label and I am only on day three since starting it.

I know that every patient responds differently to a given medication. That said, we should be able to understand it better with the more experiences we can gathe. Also I am curious how common the off label usage is.
 
#2
So, I am prescribed this off-label and I am only on day three since starting it.
One of the problems with off-label prescription is that often times drug companies have pushed off-label uses of their drugs to boost sales when no beneficial effect exists. On the other hand, sometimes a beneficial effect of a drug is discovered after the patent has expired, and no one has a financial incentive to pay for the very lengthy process of getting a drug FDA approved for a certain condition. So off-label uses of a drug generally seem shaky to me if the drug is still under patent.

post release data suggest that it tends to increase manic episodes in bipolar patients, which indicates it may help with TRD
It sounds to me like the notion it's going to help with TRD is entirely speculative. Unless there's a study, even a small one, indicating that this drug may treat TRD, it's completely a crap shoot. It's understandable that your doctor might want to explore some unusual options if standard treatments aren't helping, but I'd recommend getting a second opinion. There's no solid indication that this drug is going to be either safe or effective.
 
#3
I know I'm like a broken record recommending acupuncture and traditional Chinese herbal medicine, but there's both evidence that it works and that it's safe. I would definitely try any treatment supported by evidence that it is safe and effective for a particular condition than to try one that has no evidence.
 

Harmony

Well-Known member
SF Supporter
#4
I don't have experience with the off-label use of Caplyta for MDD.. However, if you have had a positive response to bupropion and have maxed out dosage-wise, it's feasible from a pharmacological viewpoint, Auvelity could be beneficial to you as it combines bupropion and dextromethorphan for a synergistic effect and is approved for MDD.

Also, I am not trying to push meds but rather just sharing what I know.
 

LumberJack

Huggy Bear 🐻
#5
Auvelity could be beneficial to you as it combines bupropion and dextromethorphan for a synergistic effect and is approved for MDD.

Also, I am not trying to push meds but rather just sharing what I know.
thank you for the input. I tried bupropion + dxm and it made me sleepy as heck. I think it interacted with the fluoxetine, based on Dr. Google
 

Ash600

Of dust and shadows
SF Creative
SF Supporter
#6
Late coming into this thread I know. On your opening post you mentioned you were on day 3 of treatment. Still ongoing?

Regarding Caplyta, it has shown promise as an adjunctive treatment for treatment resistance depression (TRD) .Clinical trials investigating its use in this context began gaining attention around 2023-2024, with promising results from Phase 3 studies showing its effectiveness when combined with antidepressants. These studies demonstrated significant reductions in depressive symptoms over six weeks, suggesting its potential as a valuable option for TRD. For example, in a Phase 3 study, a 42 mg daily dose of Caplyta significantly reduced depressive symptoms compared to placebo, as measured by the Montgomery-Asberg Depression Rating Scale (MADRS) over six weeks.

The results suggest that Caplyta could be a valuable option for individuals who haven't responded well to traditional antidepressants. However, its use in TRD is still under evaluation, and approval for this specific indication may depend on further studies and regulatory decisions.

Regarding your question about how common off-label drug use (OLDU) is. It's quite common - at least over here in the UK. OLDU can have a broad coverage from an indication for an unlicensed use, to something as mundane as splitting a tablet in half - yes I kid you not.

I see that some....... interesting views has been expressed about OLDU on this thread . Allow me to address some of them :

1. "One of the problems with off-label prescription is that often times drug companies have pushed off-label uses of their drugs to boost sales when no beneficial effect exists. "

It's actually illegal for drug companies to promote/advertise off license use for their drugs. To do so would just leave them open to a world of financial pain Having said that yes there has been cases where some rogue operatives have attempted to cross the line.

2. "On the other hand, sometimes a beneficial effect of a drug is discovered after the patent has expired, and no one has a financial incentive to pay for the very lengthy process of getting a drug FDA approved for a certain condition. So off-label uses of a drug generally seem shaky to me if the drug is still under patent. "

It is common for the additional beneficial effects of a drug to be discovered before patent expiry. Gabapentin, Lyrica being prime examples. In fact if OLDU is enacted before patent expiry, then it can be used as an attempt to extend the patency life or at least leverage to block or hamper the release of the generic equivalent by rival manufacturers. If I may also add, whether a manufacturer wishes to apply for licensing approval for a specificcondition in whatever country they are operating in, a key driver would naturally be the size of the customer base they are targeting and whether it'd be financially worthwhile.

It sounds to me like the notion it's going to help with TRD is entirely speculative. Unless there's a study, even a small one, indicating that this drug may treat TRD, it's completely a crap shoot. It's understandable that your doctor might want to explore some unusual options if standard treatments aren't helping, but I'd recommend getting a second opinion. There's no solid indication that this drug is going to be either safe or effective.
OLDU is not some random practice. it’s often grounded in a well-documented clinical rationale. Prescribers typically rely on evidence from studies, clinical trials, or expert consensus to justify using a medication outside its licensed indications. With Caplyta and based on it's unique mechanism of action targeting several neurotransmitter systems in the brain there is sound reasoning for the possible use of this as an adjunctive treatment. This drug is classified as an aytpical antipsychotic and other meds in this class, like aripiprazole or quetiapine have themselves been established as off-label use to augment antidepressants. Wee bit disingeneous to say that "your doctor may wish explore some unusual options...."

For off licence use in general, it may be worth pointing out that there are guidelines should a prescriber wish to go down this path. They are expected to consider the risk to basic benefit ratio and to make such considerations on an individual patient basis. Worth highlighting also that with OLDU, liability will shift from the manufacturer to the prescriber and possibily to the dispensing pharmacist as well. One such deterrent to swerve prescribing with reckless abandon.
 
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LumberJack

Huggy Bear 🐻
#7
@Ash600 - yes, I am still taking it. I seem to be doing better, but I am also making little lifestyle changes and seeing how each one goes. It’s entirely possible that the Caplyta is helping just enough for me to do these gradual changes.

Regarding off label use for TRD, Caplyta is an AAP, and drugs in that class are commonly used to augment a SSRI or SNRI. I am maxed out on the Bupropion and I had to reduce fluoxetine (40 to 20mg daily) because low libido turns out to be more of an impact to my daily functioning than suicidal thoughts are. Which sucks for various reasons.

Per my provider (he’s an advanced registered nurse who has additional training to prescribe psych meds, abbreviated as APRN) his experience with Caplyta with type 1 bipolar disorder has been that they are more likely to get into a manic episode. So he theorizes that Caplyta has more of a mood elevation effect compared to other AAPs, which would indicate benefit for ATRD.

The whole thing may be moot anyway. Being brand new to the market, and having no generic, health insurance is loathe to cover it, because profits are prioritized over patient outcomes. My insurance is flatly refusing it because I have neither a diagnosis of Bipolar nor Schizophrenia.

They make the ultimate decision, as opposed to regulation. My APRN is free to prescribe medication for off label use, as long as there’s a good reason. In this case it’s the fact that AAPs are a good tool in the arsenal for treating TRD. I’m pretty sure the DEA would knock on his office doors if he prescribed opioids off label or something, lol.

Regarding drug mfrs boosting sales by promoting off label usage- there was a scandal with the practice of sales reps with the big mfrs wining and dining prescribers, providing material gifts, etc. This practice is not technically illegal, but it is forbidden by every company I’ve worked for because they don’t want to create bad optics that could attract a lawsuit. However the sales practices above happened behind closed doors.

In short, they were not promoting off label use publicly, but they were promoting it to individual prescribers. Don’t get me started on the practice of advertising drugs directly to patients; I think it’s illegal everywhere else in the developed world for good reasons.
 
#9
post release data suggest that it tends to increase manic episodes in bipolar patients, which indicates it may help with TRD. So, I am prescribed this off-label and I am only on day three since starting it.
I'd never heard of Caplyta before this, so my response was based on the info above. A negative effect in one case doesn't necessarily mean you'll get positive one in another. If there are in fact studies suggesting that it helps with TRD, and you're doing well on it, I have no reason to object.

I'm happy it seems to be working for you :)
 

LumberJack

Huggy Bear 🐻
#10
If there are in fact studies suggesting that it helps with TRD, and you're doing well on it, I have no reason to object.

I'm happy it seems to be working for you :)
I am not aware of studies on Caplyta per se, but according to the prescribers I’ve worked with over the years, the protocol for depression that responds to antidepressants, but not resolves, is to use a mood stabilizer to boost the antidepressants.

Subtherapuetc doses of AAPs such as Aripiprazole or clonazepine (sp?) have shown a mood stabilizer effect. My APRN is going off of field experience along many patients, leading to a general body of experience that correlates what meds are and are not effective, when he knows what else has worked or not for the patient.
 

LumberJack

Huggy Bear 🐻
#11
I had a nasty side effect to Caplyta after one dose.

One of those rare "you'll never get it" things.

So I'm no help.
Gosh Darn it! I’m good at catching side effects, but not that good. If a given side effect is seen in studies to affect 5% or more patients, then it’s virtually certain that it will affect me. I don’t know if it’s due to side effects being understated, or if I am just special, but it really sucks!

I’m so sorry you had a rare side effect, but at least it happened right away, rather than after it had already built up in your system. Cold comfort, I’m sure, but I do hope that you eventually find something that works. *hug
 
#13
My APRN is going off of field experience along many patients, leading to a general body of experience that correlates what meds are and are not effective, when he knows what else has worked or not for the patient.
If there's at least some form of actual result to justify using it, and it's been found to be safe for treating at least one condition, then it doesn't sound so bad. Strictly speaking though, a drug could be safe for one condition and not another. It's also noteworthy that some medical studies are funded by drug companies and then disguised as independent research.

It's still not a bad idea to get second opinion if you have reservations about Caplyta, but if you're doing well on it, there's good reason to continue taking it. It seems like you've been in a danger zone for a while, so just about anything that succeeds in getting you out of that could be justified.
 

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