Do you think...???

[Esmeralda]

To ask such a question (in particular – where the vast majority are affected by depression) with THREE question marks, does not in the *least* imply sincerity, good will, let alone ‘genuinely insatiable and wholesome curiosity’. Especially when the OP has simply “left the building” after asking it. Instead, it appears rhetorical and full of disdain – and as well, since “narcissism” connotes something entirely negative, the question itself conveys seeming exasperation with the many affected by depression (which btw – is a diagnosed and diagnosable affliction). So, no – it is not helpful or supportive – which IS what this site is about. And with just a bit of good judgement and foresight, they could well have anticipated that it would be seen as inflammatory. Furthermore, *if* they were indeed sincere, they could have posted it in “Uncertainty” or The Soap Box. But instead, placed it in a section that is for the general diversion and relaxation of the members here. And I think an apology is in order, to said majority of the members…

For your information, I asked the question and then "left the building" because I had no real opinion on the subject. It occurred to me that a link was possible and I was asking an honest question to glean either personal opinions or actual knowledge from anyone familiar with the subject.

Yes this site is about support, but God forbid any of us here gain a little bit of personal or psychological insight while we're here right? It should be all :hug: and :tongue: and "take care hun" or "hang in there" or "PM me if you need to talk"(which very few shy, depressive people will ever do).

The fact is that psychologists have established a link between depression and narcissism (Psychology Today), stating that a narcissist can become depressed when "Narcissistic Supply" runs out, causing them to be despondent and to attempt to create more of that supply by acting out in order to manipulate others into replenishing it.

This is not to say that all depressed people are narcissists, as I am sure anyone with half a brain has surmised by now, only that SOME depressed people may indeed be narcissists (certainly not on this site though I'm sure).

 

[FoundAndLost1]

For your information, I asked the question and then "left the building" because I had no real opinion on the subject.

The "???" notwithstanding regarding seeming bias, and this we all should readily presume? Here?

Yes this site is about support, but God forbid any of us here gain a little bit of personal or psychological insight while we're here right? It should be all :hug: and :tongue: and "take care hun" or "hang in there" or "PM me if you need to talk"

"GOD" would never forbid compassion & temperance (restraint):

If you truly, honestly, and with ‘humility’ (one of the 7 “Contrary Virtues” - and searching deep within yourself for it) cannot find anything at all between a ":hug:" and a ":tongue:", and/or words of support (however they are conveyed - successfully or not) - nor make any concessions whatsoever (let alone, acknowledgement) towards others - it begs the question (an honest one at that) - why indeed are you here?

 

[Esmeralda]

What concession are you suggesting I make? The triple question marks were intended to convey a great amount of uncertainty on the subject. I don't know what you want to hear. I already said clearly that depression does not necessarily imply narcissism, but that depressed people MAY be narcissists. Narcissism, btw, in the psychological sense is an actual disorder.

Are you saying that being a depressed narcissist would make you a lesser or worse person than simply being depressed? Why so offended?

 

[FoundAndLost1]

What concession are you suggesting I make? The triple question marks were intended to convey a great amount of uncertainty on the subject. I don't know what you want to hear. I already said clearly that depression does not necessarily imply narcissism, but that depressed people MAY be narcissists. Narcissism, btw, in the psychological sense is an actual disorder.

Are you saying that being a depressed narcissist would make you a lesser or worse person than simply being depressed? Why so offended?

For all that has been pointed out - and not only in this thread - you still seem reticent in (if not oblivious to) answering the question, "Why are you here?"

 

[SadDude87]

I agree with the premise, atleast in my case. I'm one of the ones whose depression does not stem from a noble or empathetic cause. It stems from me not living up to my own grandiose desires. And while this thought pattern (A need to be, or atleast feel superior to others in order to feel content) may have developed from traumatic events, it doesn't change the fact that the narcissism these events have caused do not elicit the same empathic response to someone who has been, for example dumped by their partner. This is why I feel guilty about posting here. It's like saying help me, I feel depressed over being a jerk.

My life is extremely confusing. On the one hand, I have a deep desire for superiority. But then, I also have a need to be liked, so these desires are never shown and I can be complacent if it means a person will therefore like me. I also have many opinions which contradict my, as Freud calls it 'Super Ego' (Societal norms and expectations)

But to be honest I have been making progress. Some days I just feel happy. I give me real opinions. I don't mind if I mess up. I genuinely want to have relationships, I feel very secure and stable with everything - How I look, what I believe, where I am going.

Then other times I'll wake up and feel insecure. I'll feel ugly. I'll feel like a failure. I'll feel a need to exert dominance, I will be extremely sensitive to any criticism to the point of wanting to be violent, I will over analyze everyone and everything .. ugh.

Sorry for the rant. But you are right about me. However, you should not assume that the people here who genuinely need help suffer from the same affliction as I...

One last thing, just because the two are polar opposites does not mean they cannot co exist. What of the narcissist who is finally unmasked and sees the true self? Realising that your entire existence has been based on a falsity is trauamtic in itself.

 

[bipolarkitty]

I think this is an interesting question. I'll admit I've wondered in the past if my level of self-absorption is on the narcissistic side. When I'm depressed all I do is focus on myself. It's what I want, not what anybody else wants. And others can attack me if they want for me saying this, but I personally believe most people who are depressed are the same way. The majority of what we think about is how miserable we are.

I too agree with who posted about the enormous amount of :hug: and "it's going to be ok hun" with no real practical advice. I've been on this board a long time and I've noticed the trend toward just telling others what they want to hear. Now, while there's nothing wrong with comforting others in pain, we with depression need more. We need someone to tell us to pull ourselves out of whatever deep dark hole we're in. Because NO ONE can do it for us. We can only do it ourselves. And it makes me sad to see the huge numbers of people who won't do it or think they can't. That they're just waiting for someone to swoop down and lift them out of their misery.

I'm sorry for the rant. This is something that's been building in me for a long time. And here I finally see a question that may provoke thought and the push so many of us need to take a step back and see that maybe we need to stop dwelling on our misery so much. To see this person attacked and called "worse than the devil" is disheartening.

I think this was a legitimate question and an interesting one at that. Stop being so freaking defensive people. I see no malice in the question.

 

[Esmeralda]

To SadDude and BiPolarKitty, I REALLY appreciate your honesty on this subject. Especially since that honesty causes you to look at something about yourselves that may be unpleasant or difficult. I too have fallen into the same boat quite often :rolleyes: and that's not exactly fun to admit.

I really don't see why so many people here are offended by this thread. If someone is depressed and that carries with it (or stems from) a certain amount of narcissism, then that person is still depressed and in need of support, no? Or are we only supposed to give support to those who are depressed for "legitimate" reasons?

And to FoundandLost, I have stated many times my reasons for being here in many different threads and posts. If you're that curious about it, feel free to look.

 

[Aquariamethystea]

Narcissism is extreme love of one self, whilst depression is characterized by feelings of worthlessness, helplessness, and often self-hatred.

They're two polar concepts...

I am once again quoting Zueri, because what she said makes the entire arguement by the op, irrelevant.

Furthermore, for anyone to claim that depressed people are somehow narcissistic, is claiming that depressed people are selfish. To do that, is an attempt to force depressed people to submit themselves to a belief that they are evil for worrying about themselves and for not thinking about how they ought to live for society and for God. Of course, Anastasia would be supportive of this kind of awful philosophy. It causes people to feel guilty about themselves based off of common thinking, without having to use religion in order to guilt trip people like so many religious preachers do. Just because Catholicism is losing believers, doesn't mean that people ought to be made to feel guilty for being depressed about life and for not allowing God to save them. God can't save everyone. It is people who ought to be able to save themselves, without having religious lunatics throwing bibles at them while calling them "selfish narcissists" for not submitting to God. Sounds to me that the religious lunatics are the real narcissists.

 

[Esmeralda]

I am once again quoting Zueri, because what she said makes the entire arguement by the op, irrelevant.

Furthermore, for anyone to claim that depressed people are somehow narcissistic, is claiming that depressed people are selfish. To do that, is an attempt to force depressed people to submit themselves to a belief that they are evil for worrying about themselves and for not thinking about how they ought to live for society and for God. Of course, Anastasia would be supportive of this kind of awful philosophy. It causes people to feel guilty about themselves based off of common thinking, without having to use religion in order to guilt trip people like so many religious preachers do. Just because Catholicism is losing believers, doesn't mean that people ought to be made to feel guilty for being depressed about life and for not allowing God to save them. God can't save everyone. It is people who ought to be able to save themselves, without having religious lunatics throwing bibles at them while calling them "selfish narcissists" for not submitting to God. Sounds to me that the religious lunatics are the real narcissists.

What the hell does any of this have to do with the Catholic church or religion or guilt? NOTHING, that's what. Once again, I never said that all depressed people are narcissists, but that narcissism can lead to depression in some cases. 2 people on here have already admitted that there may be a link between this and their own depression from time to time. This has nothing to do with making anyone feel bad about their own depression.

 

[SadDude87]

I really don't see why so many people here are offended by this thread. If someone is depressed and that carries with it (or stems from) a certain amount of narcissism, then that person is still depressed and in need of support, no? Or are we only supposed to give support to those who are depressed for "legitimate" reasons?
And to FoundandLost, I have stated many times my reasons for being here in many different threads and posts. If you're that curious about it, feel free to look.

I think about that a lot. I am a firm believer that everyone deserves support, even if they are not in the traditional 'victim' role. Those who have done 'bad' things or have bad thoughts hurt like everyone else... and in my opinon they choose this as much as a person chooses to have crippling social anxiety, or chooses to go through bouts of depression..

Also re: narcissism, if you analyze it enough you will find it to be true with everyone. It just depends on how you classify things. With me, I am comfortable saying depression stems from stinted narcissism. But am I really that different? I assume others that are depressed are missing certain factors in their lives which make soley themselves feel good - Be it something social like friendships + relationships, something physical like how they look/ability to move, something 'material' like good grades or a mixture of all 3.

Depression in my opinion stems from the self being unable to attain things which make it feel good. This difficulty may come about from mental/physical trauma or limitations. But it doesn't change the fact that we all want to have something we cannot attain, and that something is supposed to make us feel good. Is that narcissism? Most would say no, it is normal. But it is not far off what I want ..

Maybe the buddhists were on to something when they said to remove all wants...

 

[Esmeralda]

I think about that a lot. I am a firm believer that everyone deserves support, even if they are not in the traditional 'victim' role. Those who have done 'bad' things or have bad thoughts hurt like everyone else... and in my opinon they choose this as much as a person chooses to have crippling social anxiety, or chooses to go through bouts of depression..

Also re: narcissism, if you analyze it enough you will find it to be true with everyone. It just depends on how you classify things. With me, I am comfortable saying depression stems from stinted narcissism. But am I really that different? I assume others that are depressed are missing certain factors in their lives which make soley themselves feel good - Be it something social like friendships + relationships, something physical like how they look/ability to move, something 'material' like good grades or a mixture of all 3.

Depression in my opinion stems from the self being unable to attain things which make it feel good. This difficulty may come about from mental/physical trauma or limitations. But it doesn't change the fact that we all want to have something we cannot attain, and that something is supposed to make us feel good. Is that narcissism? Most would say no, it is normal. But it is not far off what I want ..

Maybe the buddhists were on to something when they said to remove all wants...

I agree entirely. I mean, so what if much of some people's depression stems from or results in narcissism? If anything, it's almost comforting in a way, because it is something that can be dealt with, as you said, even using different philosophies like Buddhism in order to remove the desire for material or emotional reassurance.

Everyone deserves support, no matter what and I think people on this thread are getting really bent out of shape, assuming that by "narcissist" I mean "selfish piece of shit", which could not be further from the truth. I just think it's important for people to explore the true nature of their depression in order to conquer it once and for all. Too many people just label themselves "depressed" and leave it at that, as if there is a singular definition for "depression". Depression always has roots and reasons, and so much the better if people can dig a little deeper in order to understand themselves better.

 

[bipolarkitty]

Do you think that depression can be a form of narcissism?

I feel I must point out the obvious to some of the posters in this thread. Nowhere in that question can I see anything that even remotely hints that people are narcissistic because they are depressed. Is your thinking so black and white that you can't see that? Do you honestly think the above question can also be read as Depression=Narcissism? Come on, people. The way I read it, it's simply a question about a form of a mental illness, specifically narcissism.

By the way, I'm surprised at something else. Given the stigma that we with any form of mental illness suffer, I'm amazed at the vehemence of hatred I'm seeing of you people toward someone with a mental illness. Is depression an acceptable form of mental illness while narcissism is not? Do you also hate someone with, say, schizophrenia? If someone called you schizophrenic, would you react with the same venom that you have toward Anastasia?

And as for the reply that turned into a rant on religion and catholicism, wtf??? How on earth did you make that leap?

I don't understand why you are attacking Anastasia for this innocent question. Maybe you should take a look deep inside and try to figure out the answer.

 

[hammockmonkey]

I know for me when i'm really down is when I'm feeling totally inside myself and I can't escape. So yes.

 

[Aquariamethystea]

I'm very disappointed with most of the posters in this thread. I don't understand how many of you can agree with the flawed way of thinking that depressed people are narcissistic. Many members on SF who are depressed, are depressed because of traumatic life experiences. Surely, you wouldn't call a rape victim, a narcissist. Essentially, by you equating depression with narcissism, means that clearly, you don't have much tolerance for people's emotions. You are quick to throw a label on it, without much consideration. Certainly, you ought to be pissed if you were in a counseling session, telling your therapist about how hurt you were by some sort of trauma, and the therapist tells you that you are a "selfish narcissist". For those who have both of these conditions, maybe you should consider that they are seperate from each other and deal with it without generalizing it as if it were common amongst the majority of depression itself.

 

[Zueri]

By the way, I'm surprised at something else. Given the stigma that we with any form of mental illness suffer, I'm amazed at the vehemence of hatred I'm seeing of you people toward someone with a mental illness. Is depression an acceptable form of mental illness while narcissism is not?

Both depression and narcissism are viewed with revulsion by the vast majority of mainstream society; neither is "acceptable." However, the label "narcissist" carries far more negative connotations than depression...as somebody mentioned earlier on in the thread, it's easier to tolerate somebody who has a severe case of the blues than their self-worshipping counterparts.

Maybe the narcissists of the thread should consider this from another's point of view? ( if they are willing to stretch their minds to some other being for the evanescent duration of a few seconds...? ) It can easily be construed as a put-down and a direct slap in the face by a lot of people suffering from depression, considering the afore-mentioned insulting definitions of the word "narcissist."

 

[Aquariamethystea]

What the hell does any of this have to do with the Catholic church or religion or guilt? NOTHING, that's what. Once again, I never said that all depressed people are narcissists, but that narcissism can lead to depression in some cases. 2 people on here have already admitted that there may be a link between this and their own depression from time to time. This has nothing to do with making anyone feel bad about their own depression.

The reason why I mention religion, is because it is common for major societal forces in this world to use unethical practices towards gaining dominance of people's lives. When religion fails, it creates another way of regaining control of people's lives. One way of doing so, is by using psychology against them. Clearly, I see this thread as a way of attacking people by attempting to equate depression with narcissism, despite that the two conditions are entirely different from one another. It is a form of problem reaction solution. If a group wants to have power over another group, it can't simply just demand it, without reason, or else there will be an uprising. So, the group which seeks that power, creates a problem, which will invoke a reaction from the other group, and then the group which seeks that power, offers their "solution" to the other group, which the other group is forced to accept out of guilt and fear. Ultimately, the group which seeks the power, enacts their "solution", which gives them the power over the other group. Essentially, the entire problem reaction solution structure is based on fear-driven tactics, guilt tripping, and manipulation. It seems to me that the pathetic attempt to equate depression with narcissism, is being done in order to gain some sort of power. Otherwise, it is just an unneccessary, unethical, and immoral form of trying to hurt others.

 

[Aquariamethystea]

Both depression and narcissism are viewed with revulsion by the vast majority of mainstream society; neither is "acceptable." However, the label "narcissist" carries far more negative connotations than depression...as somebody mentioned earlier on in the thread, it's easier to tolerate somebody who has a severe case of the blues than their self-worshipping counterparts.

Maybe the narcissists of the thread should consider this from another's point of view? ( if they are willing to stretch their minds to some other being for the evanescent duration of a few seconds...? ) It can easily be construed as a put-down and a direct slap in the face by a lot of people suffering from depression, considering the afore-mentioned insulting definitions of the word "narcissist."

Again, I completely agree with you, Zueri. :hug:

 

[Aquariamethystea]

I don't understand why you are attacking Anastasia for this innocent question. Maybe you should take a look deep inside and try to figure out the answer.

The question is as innocent of a question as asking an abuse victim if they think that it is possible that they are responsible for being abused. It insinuates a very unempathetic attitude toward the victim. People who are depressed, are victims who typically have a low self-esteem, whereas, narcissistic people are just full of themselves, seeking power, and generally are, well, arrogant and unempathetic toward others.

 

[smackh2o]

Ok. You obviously don't read what the OP is saying in that they are ASKING if there is a connection, not labelling people as narcissists. Furthermore, with the evaluation that there MIGHT be a connection between depression and narcissism, you assume they are talking about everyone who has depression.

It sounds to me your dissapointment in the posters of this thread, who just want to learn something from debate, that you are the one who does not want to allow them to share an opinion without trying to make them feel bad. Just like you were saying about God before and the people who bash you until you except their beliefs.
You also seem overly defensive about this subject and for a reason that isn't apparently that clear.

"Clearly, I see this thread as a way of attacking people by attempting to equate depression with narcissism, despite that the two conditions are entirely different from one another."

You just assume the question is a direct attack on people with depression. Maybe the OP was trying to find out about themselves more than anything, they might have been worried about certain aspects of life.
Maybe you should try to start again from the top and tell us your arguments for what you have said, but in coalition of what the OP has actually said.

 

[Aquariamethystea]

Ok. You obviously don't read what the OP is saying in that they are ASKING if there is a connection, not labelling people as narcissists. Furthermore, with the evaluation that there MIGHT be a connection between depression and narcissism, you assume they are talking about everyone who has depression.

It sounds to me your dissapointment in the posters of this thread, who just want to learn something from debate, that you are the one who does not want to allow them to share an opinion without trying to make them feel bad. Just like you were saying about God before and the people who bash you until you except their beliefs.
You also seem overly defensive about this subject and for a reason that isn't apparently that clear.

"Clearly, I see this thread as a way of attacking people by attempting to equate depression with narcissism, despite that the two conditions are entirely different from one another."

You just assume the question is a direct attack on people with depression. Maybe the OP was trying to find out about themselves more than anything, they might have been worried about certain aspects of life.
Maybe you should try to start again from the top and tell us your arguments for what you have said, but in coalition of what the OP has actually said.

I posted a very long, detailed post from an article which I found online, which clearly addresses the issue in support of the reason why depression doesn't equate with narcissism. However, no one seems to want to reply to that article. Instead, some people just continue to claim that the op's statements are exact truth, then they complain about the criticism of it.