Jim's Cafe - January 23rd - Let's celebrate who we are!

[FlamingoWrangler]

Sorry,

. I don't know what "CIS" means.

CIS —Cisgender
It means my gender identity matches the sex i was assigned at birth.

 

[Aurelia]

Ok, so I have been in too many arguments about this sort of subject and through those I have solidly worked out where I stand, because of this, the below is a little long, so I gave it headings.

Who I am
Im afraid I am not a snowflake by any definition. I am a straight white bloke, who identifies as a straight white bloke. My identity in this regard has never been a question for me, and I have never felt any inclination towards anything else, though for some reason I have found the majority of vocal LGBT people have never accepted this, they took my unwavering confidence to be a sign I was closeted and in denial and tried endlessly to convert me. I order "manly" drinks if I feel like it or "girly" drinks if I feel like it, I have had straight, gay, bisexual, pansexual, asexual and transgender friends and if I wasn't so terrible at keeping friendships going long distance I still would. Have I ever come onto a man? sure, he was a raging homophobe and his reaction was hilarious, I still laugh thinking about how his chair shot across the room from the speed he ran away, and that was 15 years ago. Have I ever wore makeup or a dress? no, but only because there has never been a good reason and I don't like showing off my legs (I also don't wear shorts).

Who you are (to me)
For me, whatever gender or identity you are, as long as its not bullshit and you dont throw it in people's faces, you go ahead and be you. By bullshit I mean plantgender or transage or anything else masking either mental illness or criminal levels of sexual perversion (Transage is what paedophiles all themselves). I have been called a homophobe for not enjoying a man wearing a dress draping himself off me and insisting he get off, but funnily enough, despite being straight, I didnt enjoy it primarily because I didnt know him and he came across kinda obnoxious and entitled, so even if I were gay, I would still ask him to get off. If a guy ever confessed to me I would be flattered, and let him down as gently as I could, and I have been attracted to and wanted to ask out an Asexual woman but I accepted who she was and more importantly, all reasons aside, she just wasnt into me, so that's that.
Oh, and I have a bisexual sister, and all that means to me is that the lucky woman has twice as many dating options as me, and we can both appreciate a beautiful redhead.

Gender
As far as I can see there are exactly 2 "Genders": Male and Female, there are physical, psychological, physiological, neurological and hormonal markers that define you as a "man" or a "woman", but like all things we all exist on a scale, like sliders on a colour pallet, our minds, our sexual desires, our bodies, our inclinations and our emotions all fall independently somewhere on a scale between "Absolute Man" and "Absolute Woman" we are all a mix, personally, all my sliders are strongly on the male side, hence my chosen identity, but the story doesn't stop there, no one facet of ourselves will develop entirely the same either, just because you are physically mostly male or female doesnt mean everything is the same, for me my body is largely male, but I have an annoyingly female fat distribution, when I put on weight it all goes to my hips -_- so all our "sliders" are subdivided into hundreds more, and where does that leave us? well, we all exist on a massive Nth dimensional colour pallet of almost innumerable facets that individually fall somewhere between male and female, making us all, on the whole, unique.

Gender Identity (Please read the "Gender" section first or it may make less sense)
As I mentioned, trying to pin a "male" or "female" label on people is mostly an approximation, and a lot of people are quite a varied a mix, and many people are "mostly female" in some regards and "mostly male" in others. Psychologically and Neurologically the female mind is more geared towards empathy and social development whilst the male mind is more geared towards special awareness and mechanical understanding (this has even been tested in wild animals, even ape girls go for the dolls and ape boys go for the trucks without any outside influence) but there was a show a while ago exploring gender on a scale and I still remember how this massive biker-looking dude, the manliest of men scored as "mostly female" with regards to empathetic development, more than many of the women on the show. So what do we do about our identities? Well what IS an identity? It is just a label we assign ourselves, a fully worked out view of who we are, so how many gender identities are there? as many as people care to create, if there is no pre-made gender identity our there that fits your particular mix, make your own, that's fine:

Homosexuality: Most sliders going one way and the "attraction" slider mostly going the other.
Transgender: Most sliders going one way and "physical development" slider going the other.
Bisexual: Most siders going one way and "attraction" falling somewhere in the middle meaning the can choose to go both ways.
Pansexual: The same as Bisexual, but with a different presentation, creating a more open nature towards your partners sexual identity, in essence, perhaps the most open kind of love, if you love someone, you love someone.
Agender: Physical sliders going one way or the other, but many of the psychological sliders all landing close to the middle.

I can go on, but what I'm saying is that no Gender Identity is right, wrong, natural or unnatural, its just the result of us trying to create a coherant self-image regarding a gender which so often fails to hit the "either or" that everyone is taught to believe in, does that make "Male" and "Female" gender identities any less valid? no, they are just one of the many Gender Identities, they just happen to be the most common, but I will say anyone who claims to BE absolutely male or female, not just identify as such, is wrong, the chances against that are astronomical considering how much variation there is.

Gender Purpose
Our gender does aim to be mostly on one side or the other, either Male or Female, as this is needed for procreation, and this causes the majority to be largely either "mostly male" or "mostly female" causing the misconception that gender is an "either or" thing and that everyone else is a freak or a mistake or some warped personal choice, (as the main human reaction to "otherness" is rejection), but this is not actually true, it is interesting to note that in the wild homosexuality and other gender variations are just as prevalent, and also interestingly, populations of social animals actually do BETTER if a small amount of their population is gay. The gay animals serve as surrogates for any orphaned babies, they skew the population towards strong adults rather than too many children, and since animals are less homophobic, a quick bit of consequence-less fun every now and then helps reduce population stress levels, there are evolutionary advantages to homosexuality which may explain its prevalence even in the human species (us being a social lot) meaning rather than a mistake, they are part of the Darwinian "Survival of the fittest" model, and though the homosexual animals don't produce kids (and so cant pass on their genes), the populations with a higher chance of producing homosexuals survived better so the genes for producing them also survived.

In our modern society we don't put as high a value on "survival" as we do social and financial achievement, and it has always been the different, the non-binaries, who have shown a stronger slant towards unconventional creation, art, literature, outside-the-box thinking even in traditionally "male" exploits like architecture or research, anything that gives you a fresh or uncommon perspective can be an asset in our culture, meaning, especially with the ability for artificial insemination and surrogates, the Darwinian model is only backing the LGBT community as the "fittest" precisely because they are different.

Gender is a concept, a social construct, just like sexual orientation, love, the law, art, etc. There is no clear universal definition of what a man is and what a woman is. Genitalia is not what defines them, for example. And like you said, we are all on a spectrum of "grey area" when it comes to that. That's why I don't like to even acknowledge gender. The only time I acknowledge it is in order to communicate with others so that they understand what I'm saying, or when filling out paperwork (let's say at the doctor's office) - "Are you male or female?" I put myself down as female, but only because I have to, because we need social constructs in order to be able to understand what one another is talking about, what things mean. But deep down, I couldn't care less about it, and given the choice, would rather do away with it altogether.

 

[Aurelia]

I am straight but not interested in sex (asexual). I don't know what "CIS" means. I probably would be interested in sex if I met the right person but i doubt it.

I woke up to this morning to find snow flurries have covered the ground with a light snow. It was pretty but has melted already in the sun. It was real pretty as the grass poked through.
Have a good day!

Perhaps you're a straight demi-sexual asexual then? Someone who is only interested in sexual relationships once they've formed an emotional bond with someone (if that were to ever happen). And yes, you can for sure be all three at the same time.

 

[Nick]

It took me a long time to realize that it's okay to be me. I don't have to fit into the mold my family find acceptable. I don't have to fit into the mold the culture around me finds acceptable. Yes, they will still mock me. Yes, they will still roll their eyes at me. Yes, they will still hurl insults at me. Other's opinion doesn't make me any less Nick.

I suppose if I had to pick a label I'd say I'm pansexual. I have preferences, but they pertain to the personality of a person. It's more about who they are as a person.

There is something spectacular about a snowflake. I'm sad that people have distorted the view of it.

 

[Witty_Sarcasm]

I was born female and identify as such, though sometimes I feel a bit like a male or possibly gender fluid. I'm pansexual and don't really talk about these things anywhere except here, because I know I'll mostly be accepted as I am.

 

[HappyKitty]

My friends have been cheering me up from the eating disorder recovery talk and like... Its so funny, I feel so satisfied.

They’re like next time if someone says “you’re fat like from joke to insult, just say....”

“So I am fat, whatchu gonna do about it? You’re not so good looking yourselves.”

😹😹😹

 

[Lane]

Good morning. I really like the topic of this forum @Aurelia because I'm a firm believer that if you're not hurting anyone then one should be able to live as they and their family wish without stigma, judgement or legal repercussions.

I lived my life as polyamorous and believe that noone owns another human being. Even in a couple one may be monogamous. When my ex husband and I were married we were able to explore our sexuality with others and enhance our marriage at times. As a single person I was welcomed into a close friends marriage during a time when we both needed that. I loved her children and she mine. There was another relationship where the wife and I, platonic had a beautiful relationship where we would take our babies to the park and could talk about our husbands and daily life. So, I'm not a fan of jealousy, although it does exist in all animals.

I have an understanding with my children that they are free to be whatever they are designed to be. I have jokingly said I dont care if I have son in laws or daughter in laws. I'm not sure if they're disappointed in me but I cant be someone else.

 

[Lane]

@Aurelia, I couldn't agree more. Being open to and embracing each other's differences is what makes us more interesting, intelligent, and human. And I absolutely refuse to defame the beautiful snowflake by attaching a derogatory meaning to it that's used to belittle other people. Snowflakes are a miracle and if someone wants to call me a snowflake I will take it as a compliment. I'm a beautiful, courageous, joyful snowflake!

I live in snow country, here are couple photos I took that I'm particularly proud of. The first one is my former backyard view. It's has been enhanced, but is no less worthy. The second is my current backyard on a crystal clear day after a big snowfall.

Thank you for tagging me @Kiwi2016 I love your snow photos.
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Amazing photos @Sunday16

 

[Sunspots]

Thanks for the tags @Aurelia and @Kiwi2016

To be honest, I have no idea what my sexuality is, I'm just me. I guess if I had to stick a label on myself it would probably be pansexual.

We hardly ever get snow here, maybe once every few years so it was a real treat to wake up this morning to a fairly good covering. I took the pooch for a walk and it seemed like everyone in the village was out building snowmen and having fun - makes a lovely change after weeks of lockdown rain.

A few pictures from our walk

 

[Livelife]

Wonderful sharing here, just beautiful. I'm just me. And everyone else is just whoever and however they need to, care to, desire to, want to or were born to be in any given moment anywhere.
The photos are so beautiful, perfect backyards @Sunday16

 

[Aurelia]

Thanks for the tags @Aurelia and @Kiwi2016

To be honest, I have no idea what my sexuality is, I'm just me. I guess if I had to stick a label on myself it would probably be pansexual.

We hardly ever get snow here, maybe once every few years so it was a real treat to wake up this morning to a fairly good covering. I took the pooch for a walk and it seemed like everyone in the village was out building snowmen and having fun - makes a lovely change after weeks of lockdown rain.

A few pictures from our walk
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Beautiful pics, Lu. And hey, no one ever said you had to stick a label on yourself. I respect and admire people who refuse to do so very much because it's like I said before, WE ARE NOT OUR LABELS! Our labels simply allow others to understand things about us, about who we are, but they do not define us as individuals. My labels, for example, are: pansexual, possibly asexual (or at least somewhere on the spectrum -- and heck, asexuality has so any sub-category labels; I have no idea which ones I fit into best), Borderline/Avoidant, leaning in the direction of female on the gender spectrum, etc. I couldn't care less about those labels. It's like someone said earlier...I AM ME. And that's it. End of story.

 

[dandelions]

whoa, Dante! you post even longer posts than I 😍. took me this long to get to this point! anyway, i love your ability to do the work to find answers or reach possible answers. in this post i find that i agree and disagree, but maybe my disagreement is covered within things you say in this post. i likely should reread this again at least once or maybe more. my biggest point of contention is that i think that even with possible/likely correctness there is still also perception that could be prejudicing peoples points of view. for me, i can’t help feeling that there is greater fluidity in the state of being female and male and that it is likely that states of the opposite sex in the one sex may all be there all the time yet just not accessed due to lack of need, or trauma or ancestral influence in genetics. perhaps this is just a moot point. i do feel this needs a real sit down and share thoughts. and as you probably know i’m so bleeping full of “issues” i may be prejudiced by those very issues.

Gender Identity (Please read the "Gender" section first or it may make less sense)
As I mentioned, trying to pin a "male" or "female" label on people is mostly an approximation, and a lot of people are quite a varied a mix, and many people are "mostly female" in some regards and "mostly male" in others.

Homosexuality: Most sliders going one way and the "attraction" slider mostly going the other.
Transgender: Most sliders going one way and "physical development" slider going the other.
Bisexual: Most siders going one way and "attraction" falling somewhere in the middle meaning the can choose to go both ways.
Pansexual: The same as Bisexual, but with a different presentation, creating a more open nature towards your partners sexual identity, in essence, perhaps the most open kind of love, if you love someone, you love someone.
Agender: Physical sliders going one way or the other, but many of the psychological sliders all landing close to the middle.

I can go on, but what I'm saying is that no Gender Identity is right, wrong, natural or unnatural,

i just posted these because these are the areas that need much further study on my part to become more able to solidify my perspective.

 

[Brân]

@Aurelia love this cafe, thank you for opening it with this theme and making me feel included. I still can't believe there are people who exist that are against people being who they are. Crazy.

I genuinely have no idea what label I'd put on myself in regards to sexuality. I am in a relationship with a woman, but I'd never thought of women in that way at all before (even guys actually) last year, and it's still only the one I'm with heh - even then, it's not really sexual. I can't find people desirable to be around (even as friends) if I'm not attracted to who they are as a person.

It's odd, but it's probably one of the best things that have happened so, I'll take it : )

* Also, I am so jealous of everyone's snow! It seems like everywhere in Wales has it right now other than my city

 

[Auri]

Yeah, I'm a bit tired of people thinking they know better how I think and feel, or that my behaviour should perfectly match the labels I identify with, as if nature categorized people and not people started categorizing nature. I completely agree with you (Aurelia) that everyone's experience and feelings are unique, and labels can sometimes be useful for faster communication, but ultimately the reality is just much more complicated. There isn't much you can assume about a person if you only know some labels, it's the details that count, and, well, I personally don't want to share mine in a Café. ^^

 

[Aurelia]

Pansexual: The same as Bisexual, but with a different presentation, creating a more open nature towards your partners sexual identity, in essence, perhaps the most open kind of love, if you love someone, you love someone.

Just wanted to say that the second part is true, about it being the most open kind of love. But it differs from bisexuality in that pansexuals consider themselves "gender-blind". Bisexuals may sometimes have preferences, whereas pansexuals have no preferences as far as that goes. We don't view people as their gender at all, just as individuals.

 

[Auri]

Also wanted to say a word about sexual fluidity... It's ok to change your mind about the labels you identify with, as many times in your life as you want. It's ok if your feelings actually change in time, progressively or suddenly, no matter if there is a reason or not, and it's ok if the way you view your feelings changes. It's also ok if you've always felt the exact same way and always will.

I know society doesn't like the "undecided", which only pushes people into fitting categories even more, but there is nothing wrong with feeling the way you feel at some point in time. Be real, be yourself, no matter what. Particularly in the realm of sexuality, don't ever do anything you don't really want to do. ♡

 

[Ash600]

Society in general tends to have a fixation with assigning people to various categories. Whilst in some cases it can be useful, it can also be probitive or destructive even. Characteristcs assigned to each group could potentially cause us to adopt those traits in a kind of self fulfilling prophecy.

From a more cynical view, groupings exist so as to enable the user to utilise it as a predictive tool. - Think of marketing companies and the way they target people with ad campaigns for example.
Additionally, categorisations could lead to, prejudiced views, - guilt by association if you wish.

But yes, labelling can have it's uses, as you can argue that it offers a sense of recognition. However, what should never be lost, is that each person is an individual, with separate and quite often distinct traits and characteristics. That's what gives them a personality. Individualism shouldn't be suppressed, but rather celebrated.

 

[JMG]

Just wanted to say ty @Kiwi2016 for the tag Glad to see a cafe for today, interesting theme. I've never struggled with gender identity I'm glad to say (hope no one is offended by me saying that, I only say it because it just sounds like it would make things even MORE confusing for me and I'm already confused about enough other things) I feel like the gender I am which is female. I'm pretty insecure about my femininity though which I wish I cared a lot less about.

In terms of sexuality, I'm bi but more straight than bi. It's not an equal attraction to both genders, definitely higher with men but there's things about the female body that I find very sexy and interesting. Only talk openly about it online or to the few bf's I've had though. Would never want anyone in my family to know it, we just don't talk openly about sexual things at all but I prefer it that way cos it would be very awkward I think. I used to be a lot more resistant about being bi in my teens & even 20's a bit, but seeing people talking in an open and accepting way about it online over the years has helped me with that a lot.
Great pix everyone has posted too, I love how snow and snowflakes look also, so beautiful how they are all unique, just amazing

 

[Dante]

whoa, Dante! you post even longer posts than I 😍. took me this long to get to this point! anyway, i love your ability to do the work to find answers or reach possible answers. in this post i find that i agree and disagree, but maybe my disagreement is covered within things you say in this post. i likely should reread this again at least once or maybe more. my biggest point of contention is that i think that even with possible/likely correctness there is still also perception that could be prejudicing peoples points of view. for me, i can’t help feeling that there is greater fluidity in the state of being female and male and that it is likely that states of the opposite sex in the one sex may all be there all the time yet just not accessed due to lack of need, or trauma or ancestral influence in genetics. perhaps this is just a moot point. i do feel this needs a real sit down and share thoughts. and as you probably know i’m so bleeping full of “issues” i may be prejudiced by those very issues.


i just posted these because these are the areas that need much further study on my part to become more able to solidify my perspective.

There is always more to unpack, covering a subject as vast and complex as Gender and Identity in a single post is a futile effort and I could only summarise the key points and gloss over the rest with sweeping generalisations, of course there is fluidity in gender, your hormones change over periods of weeks, days or even hours, and these hormone changes can have profound effects on the body from muscle growth, hair growth, minor variation in physical structures (giving a deeper voice or tighter skin etc) even some more major ones (men growing lactating boobs or women growing facial hair) and have a HUGE impact on your sense of masculinity or femininity, with enough variation in hormones you could feel like a butch bloke one day and a delicate woman the next (before anyone attacks, i was using 2 extremes, Im not saying women are delicate or men are butch as a rule, its just the extremes of hormones), then finally there is the psychological aspect of it all, what your mind is telling you that you are, which can vary wildly from moment to moment based on ESD or DID or other more complicated identity states.

It is all a lot more complicated that I have written (especially my defining of homosexuality, pansexuality etc), for the most part I completely glossed over the influence of developmental psychology on gender identity, as I'm sure that the difference between Pansexual and Bisexual is quite heavily influenced by your psychology, how open or rigidly you see the gender identities of yourself or others. There really is too much for me to unpack thoroughly without getting a doctorate for the books I would have to write on Biology, Psychology, Sociology, Comparative Physiology, Neurology, Endocrinology and more, and the legwork and learning I would have to do to be able to write those books... well, it would take a lifetime.

 

[KM76710]

I am male and straight but also to me sex is merely a biological act of pleasure and I have never felt or assigned any emotional connection to it.

The most recent Winter picture here from a couple of weeks ago.

I think the last snow before this one was 3 or 4 years ago.