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Not my problem
- Thread starter mtLife
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There are other people in a similar position who may also not like the things that you've mentioned, but aren't suicidal. If you try a treatment method, you may gain a new perspective on this. Not necessarily that you won't see those things as bad, but rather that you may not longer see those things as cause for suicide.
Reading your comments makes me think of the saying "Anger is an acid that does more damage to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured."
You seem to be suffering from toxic judgments. Everyone other than you (or your kind) is an incompetent idiot and things are only getting worse. You shoot down people's suggestions here without appearing to consider them.
You say that you cry at night, but you can't accept the way things are even though there's nothing you can do to fix them. But what is your crying at night doing to improve anything??? What is the point of it? Nothing! Yet you hold onto your anger and pain like you are holding onto a red-hot poker because somehow you just can't let go of it. Let it go.
You are addicted to pain and judgment. Yet I hesitate to make any suggestions because you will just dismiss them anyway.
People have probably been using the "the world is getting worse and worse" argument for 3,000+ years. Sure, there are bad things about the world. But you know what? There are many good things about many parts of the modern world, too. Racism and homophobia are finally considered problems among the developed nations, rather than just taken for granted. There are many other examples. Is today really the worst time in history? Tell that to a victim of the Inquisition. Or a slave. Or a teenage mother convicted to hang for stealing a loaf of bread.
You need to look into your own mind and heart to find out why you're so upset. Because regardless of how much pain is out there in the world, it is triggering something in you. What Ekhart Tolle calls the pain body.
One exercise you can try is to suspend your judgements for a short time - say, half an hour. If a car drives past you weaving in and out of traffic, don't think "there's an idiot," simply observe "that car is weaving in and out of traffic." Just try it. Try it for 10 minutes, if you can't do half an hour. No judgment.
Your passing judgement is doing nothing to better the world.
Maybe try volunteering or giving to charity, or promoting a political candidate you believe in. A small thing to improve the world is better than all the beating yourself up or passing judgment.
You seem to be suffering from toxic judgments. Everyone other than you (or your kind) is an incompetent idiot and things are only getting worse. You shoot down people's suggestions here without appearing to consider them.
You say that you cry at night, but you can't accept the way things are even though there's nothing you can do to fix them. But what is your crying at night doing to improve anything??? What is the point of it? Nothing! Yet you hold onto your anger and pain like you are holding onto a red-hot poker because somehow you just can't let go of it. Let it go.
You are addicted to pain and judgment. Yet I hesitate to make any suggestions because you will just dismiss them anyway.
People have probably been using the "the world is getting worse and worse" argument for 3,000+ years. Sure, there are bad things about the world. But you know what? There are many good things about many parts of the modern world, too. Racism and homophobia are finally considered problems among the developed nations, rather than just taken for granted. There are many other examples. Is today really the worst time in history? Tell that to a victim of the Inquisition. Or a slave. Or a teenage mother convicted to hang for stealing a loaf of bread.
You need to look into your own mind and heart to find out why you're so upset. Because regardless of how much pain is out there in the world, it is triggering something in you. What Ekhart Tolle calls the pain body.
One exercise you can try is to suspend your judgements for a short time - say, half an hour. If a car drives past you weaving in and out of traffic, don't think "there's an idiot," simply observe "that car is weaving in and out of traffic." Just try it. Try it for 10 minutes, if you can't do half an hour. No judgment.
Your passing judgement is doing nothing to better the world.
Maybe try volunteering or giving to charity, or promoting a political candidate you believe in. A small thing to improve the world is better than all the beating yourself up or passing judgment.
You think all you got is a huge tax bill? Public education, sanitation, highways, infrastructure, security/defence. Just a small sample of the things taxes pay for. But no doubt you don't require social services (lucky you) and did your kids go to private school? Again, lucky you.
What you got, for being a a healthy white male: That very ability to get an education, a professional job, and so on. The ability to not need to lean on the social services net, and to feel self-righteous about paying your taxes.
You won the lottery. So don't say you "get nothing." I'm not saying feel guilty - enjoy your life. Better your mental health.
What you got, for being a a healthy white male: That very ability to get an education, a professional job, and so on. The ability to not need to lean on the social services net, and to feel self-righteous about paying your taxes.
You won the lottery. So don't say you "get nothing." I'm not saying feel guilty - enjoy your life. Better your mental health.
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Lady wolf hit the nail on the head.
I should feel privileged that I work my arse off to lose over half my wage so that a majority (not all) can sit at home do nothing and have a free house, food, yada yada.
I have no problem with paying for social care, but today is a life choice for many, not a safety net as it's so suggested.
And don't give me that it pays for healthcare for the elderly and vulnerable, because my grab had a stroke and she lost her flat paying for social care fees. When she died her estate which her and her husband worked hard to build up, was worth nothing.
Roads and infrastructure come out of fuel duty and ved. National insurance for NHS.
But like you say, I should feel lucky that I have to work hard so others on social can take 3 holidays a year when I can't.
I'll make sure my kids work even harder to pay the ever increasing tax burden!
Everyone has the opportunity to get an education, a job. I left school with no GCSEs. I worked my arse off to climb the ladder. You used to get out what you put in, but not now.
It would be nice to have a say, but that's not possible, no one listens. It's just take take take.
This life is not free, it's not a life, it's working hard, being restricted, to pay the ever increasing burden this world is imposing on its subjects.
Have you ever stored to think and wonder exactly where all these trillions of pounds goes every year? And can you honestly say that you get value for money in the 60%+ taxation I'm paying?
You never see a poor politician!
But that's on, I'll go to work tomorrow like a good little subject to earn their wage and a load of other people's too. And how dare I feel disgruntled about it!
I should feel privileged that I work my arse off to lose over half my wage so that a majority (not all) can sit at home do nothing and have a free house, food, yada yada.
I have no problem with paying for social care, but today is a life choice for many, not a safety net as it's so suggested.
And don't give me that it pays for healthcare for the elderly and vulnerable, because my grab had a stroke and she lost her flat paying for social care fees. When she died her estate which her and her husband worked hard to build up, was worth nothing.
Roads and infrastructure come out of fuel duty and ved. National insurance for NHS.
But like you say, I should feel lucky that I have to work hard so others on social can take 3 holidays a year when I can't.
I'll make sure my kids work even harder to pay the ever increasing tax burden!
Everyone has the opportunity to get an education, a job. I left school with no GCSEs. I worked my arse off to climb the ladder. You used to get out what you put in, but not now.
It would be nice to have a say, but that's not possible, no one listens. It's just take take take.
This life is not free, it's not a life, it's working hard, being restricted, to pay the ever increasing burden this world is imposing on its subjects.
Have you ever stored to think and wonder exactly where all these trillions of pounds goes every year? And can you honestly say that you get value for money in the 60%+ taxation I'm paying?
You never see a poor politician!
But that's on, I'll go to work tomorrow like a good little subject to earn their wage and a load of other people's too. And how dare I feel disgruntled about it!
Not going to apply favouritism or choosing a side here, but my own...
I don't think it creates a healthy discussion... it's one of those age old debates "but, my tax money - where does it go..." - Do you really want to control all of this as an individual citizen? I think it may just frustrate you because of the control factor. I can understand that it may seem like there is some great injustice being done to you personally.
We citizens are lucky to be able to vote at all on this, by voting for a politician, party, leader etc.
From a reddit thread I saw on this subject:
"People should be able to choose how their tax money is spent."
""The problem is that people won't appropriately disperse tax dollars. People don't know how governments function, which is why we elect representatives who (allegedly) have the time and experience to allocate the money more appropriately.
Also, it would cause a huge issue as certain items are notably less "sexy" than others. Space program might get way more interest than "Municipal Tier-3 pipe and sewer inspection", but going to space is the last of your concerns when your city sinks into a lake of liquid shit.""
And on average you would just choose what fits you for your best interest personally.
I know in my innocence I would have chosen this too, the space program.
I 100% expect you to stick to your beliefs, but that's okay - I'm just saying that none of us here are specialized in the subject or are experts by any stretch of the imagination.
You can work hard, work smart etc. and expect some sort of major return of investment - Let's ask Joe the billionaire how he got there... - but do you come close to have a greater understanding of it all - seeing both sides of the story.
When dealing with things you can't control or have no real influence over - I could suggest trying to find some acceptance in this fact.
I don't think it creates a healthy discussion... it's one of those age old debates "but, my tax money - where does it go..." - Do you really want to control all of this as an individual citizen? I think it may just frustrate you because of the control factor. I can understand that it may seem like there is some great injustice being done to you personally.
We citizens are lucky to be able to vote at all on this, by voting for a politician, party, leader etc.
From a reddit thread I saw on this subject:
"People should be able to choose how their tax money is spent."
""The problem is that people won't appropriately disperse tax dollars. People don't know how governments function, which is why we elect representatives who (allegedly) have the time and experience to allocate the money more appropriately.
Also, it would cause a huge issue as certain items are notably less "sexy" than others. Space program might get way more interest than "Municipal Tier-3 pipe and sewer inspection", but going to space is the last of your concerns when your city sinks into a lake of liquid shit.""
And on average you would just choose what fits you for your best interest personally.
I know in my innocence I would have chosen this too, the space program.
I 100% expect you to stick to your beliefs, but that's okay - I'm just saying that none of us here are specialized in the subject or are experts by any stretch of the imagination.
You can work hard, work smart etc. and expect some sort of major return of investment - Let's ask Joe the billionaire how he got there... - but do you come close to have a greater understanding of it all - seeing both sides of the story.
When dealing with things you can't control or have no real influence over - I could suggest trying to find some acceptance in this fact.
From your post...
""her husband worked hard to build up, was worth nothing.
But like you say, I should feel lucky that I have to work hard so others on social can take 3 holidays a year when I can't.
I'll make sure my kids work even harder to pay the ever increasing tax burden!
Everyone has the opportunity to get an education, a job. I left school with no GCSEs. I worked my arse off to climb the ladder. You used to get out what you put in, but not now.
This life is not free, it's not a life, it's working hard, being restricted, to pay the ever increasing burden this world is imposing on its subjects. ""
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Sorry to interrupt here... I personally don't do it like this usually, just pointing out that you are kinda - for lack of a better word - fetishizing what you consider to be "right, justified".
You can find many like-minded folk, who see their own worth based on their "hard work" - usually found in echo chambers of some sorts.
"If everyone worked hard..." or to quote you: "Everyone has the opportunity to get an education, a job."
I'd suggest not starting a sentence like this... "If everyone did action A, then B will certainly 100% happen." It doesn't help your argument.
Now... I'm hoping we can return to a more okay discussion, without too many assumptions about other people.
""her husband worked hard to build up, was worth nothing.
But like you say, I should feel lucky that I have to work hard so others on social can take 3 holidays a year when I can't.
I'll make sure my kids work even harder to pay the ever increasing tax burden!
Everyone has the opportunity to get an education, a job. I left school with no GCSEs. I worked my arse off to climb the ladder. You used to get out what you put in, but not now.
This life is not free, it's not a life, it's working hard, being restricted, to pay the ever increasing burden this world is imposing on its subjects. ""
----------------------------------
Sorry to interrupt here... I personally don't do it like this usually, just pointing out that you are kinda - for lack of a better word - fetishizing what you consider to be "right, justified".
You can find many like-minded folk, who see their own worth based on their "hard work" - usually found in echo chambers of some sorts.
"If everyone worked hard..." or to quote you: "Everyone has the opportunity to get an education, a job."
I'd suggest not starting a sentence like this... "If everyone did action A, then B will certainly 100% happen." It doesn't help your argument.
Now... I'm hoping we can return to a more okay discussion, without too many assumptions about other people.
mt, these arguments are all points of view, different ways of seeing reality, ideologies. Nobody needs to literally die to defend a point of view. You said these things are keeping you up at night, so if others see things differently why would you not find it freeing? Find what psychologists call your observer self, that part of you that has been there since childhood, that is even deeper than your emotions or viewpoints. Maybe you need to take early retirement, for example, but your belief in working hard makes you see this as weakness.
Mt, I'm from the UK too and like you, feel let down. It feels unfair and I have felt the same despair you have. I have a good life, a lovely home, two amazing children now grown up and enough left over to go on a nice holiday every year if we're careful.
Sometimes it just feels like a grind that we get nothing for in return. My daughter is 22, living on minimum wage in an expensive area as that's where her job is that she has trained for three years to do (at a large cost to us). She qualifies for no state financial support so we are still having to keep her as her salary barely covers a room in a shared house.
BUT my kids both had free education until they were 18, we've all had free healthcare - including two births and extensive cancer and mental health treatment. Have you any idea how much this would cost in another country? My mother is now in her 80s and costs the NHS thousands of pounds a year. With an aging population these costs are only going to get higher. So what do we do?
I've worked in schools where the majority of families are living on some kind of benefits. I've seen some of the parents standing at the school gates with the latest phone, wearing designer joggers with a fag hanging out of their mouth. While their children are stealing food out of other children's lunch boxes because they are hungry. Who suffers most if we take those benefits away?
Life is fucking unfair on an awful lot of people. That's how it is. Things are incredibly shit the world over right now and every time we turn on the evening news there's another tragedy to haunt us. All we can do is vote (and let's be bloody thankful we can do that as many countries do not allow it) and hope that it makes a difference. If the people get pissed enough then maybe things will change.
Sometimes it just feels like a grind that we get nothing for in return. My daughter is 22, living on minimum wage in an expensive area as that's where her job is that she has trained for three years to do (at a large cost to us). She qualifies for no state financial support so we are still having to keep her as her salary barely covers a room in a shared house.
BUT my kids both had free education until they were 18, we've all had free healthcare - including two births and extensive cancer and mental health treatment. Have you any idea how much this would cost in another country? My mother is now in her 80s and costs the NHS thousands of pounds a year. With an aging population these costs are only going to get higher. So what do we do?
I've worked in schools where the majority of families are living on some kind of benefits. I've seen some of the parents standing at the school gates with the latest phone, wearing designer joggers with a fag hanging out of their mouth. While their children are stealing food out of other children's lunch boxes because they are hungry. Who suffers most if we take those benefits away?
Life is fucking unfair on an awful lot of people. That's how it is. Things are incredibly shit the world over right now and every time we turn on the evening news there's another tragedy to haunt us. All we can do is vote (and let's be bloody thankful we can do that as many countries do not allow it) and hope that it makes a difference. If the people get pissed enough then maybe things will change.
Thanks for your awesome post, Sunspots. I hope mt sees it. I wanted to add another point, for the OP but also anyone else reading this thread.
I work myself--at the same company for 20+ years in 3 different positions, so I can always relate to how working people feel sometimes that the reward for hard work is more hard work, and it "feels" like we get nothing in return. At the same time I have good friends who are on benefits/disability and it is certainly not easy for most of them either.
My best friend lived in Brighton in the UK (I'm in Canada) and was on disability benefits until he died from a severe physical illness that was unfortunately not diagnosed until a month before his death(!) He did have mental illness as well. His life was gruelling because he couldn't get into social housing/"council flats" and was in a tiny studio flat on a rotating 6-week lease with the constant threat of losing his housing. So this idea of "free housing" for all those on benefits is false. It's an issue in Canada too -- huge wait lists for subsidized housing generally means only "lifers" in the system can get it. Or certain lucky exceptions. Many people, like my friend, are in regular rentals that often cost more than the housing allowance and cut into their living and food allowance.
My poor friend couldn't get any support even though he became physically unable to walk without great pain, and his social worker who was supposed to visit him almost never showed up. Luckily I was able to raise funds among our friends online so he could pay for things like his cab fares to the hospital. The reason I mention this is to counter the idea that those on benefits have everything handed to them.
I'm not sure how the UK compares to Canada, but in Canada we divide our benefits into several types. There is unemployment, welfare, and disability welfare. And there's also disability pension, which is administered by the Canada Pension Plan. Many disabled people receive a combination of welfare disability and pension disability depending on on how long they were able to work.
What I object to is referring to people who don't work, or on welfare or disability as some kind of homogenous group, that they are "lazy" or choose not to work. In Canada people are on welfare for an average of 2.5 years. This average includes those on it for life, so you can see some are on it for a very short time.
There is obviously a balance between making the social programs so easy to get that people can take advantage of them, and so hard to access that people in desperate need fall through the cracks. We are now seeing the pendulum swing to the latter. Unfortunately it's often the immediate, urgent cases that get turned away or are told they must wait weeks while their claim is evaluated.
Here's the thing: We've all seen cases where the system is probably being defrauded. The most common thing in Canada is the single mother on welfare who has a man living with her that social services knows nothing about, who is employed and bringing in a full-time income while she collects welfare. And believe me (because I used to work on a provincial fraud tips line) these cases get reported all the time. But who suffers if the mother's income is cut off? Quite often it's the child.
And even in the scenario Sunspots mention, what can we assume if a parent on benefits is standing there in designer joggers with a new-looking phone? The joggers may be knockoffs, the phone may be purchased stolen. The parent may be buying cigarettes above food for the child. But how on earth are we going to police that? In the end we just have to trust the government workers to do their job, and even if we know some won't, there are others (and I've known several) who are very dedicated.
I know it's tempting when we see the "lifers" people on social services for years and years (and often with subsidized housing etc) who look healthy, to make assumptions. But we simply should not. Whether they have a mental illness or other invisible disability or some may have damaged their bodies through drug use - they are not people to be envied.
And I think sometimes when we do envy these people, it's possibly an indication we need to look at our own physical and mental health and see if we need help and, if so, where we might get it. I pray for everyone here that you find what you need.
I work myself--at the same company for 20+ years in 3 different positions, so I can always relate to how working people feel sometimes that the reward for hard work is more hard work, and it "feels" like we get nothing in return. At the same time I have good friends who are on benefits/disability and it is certainly not easy for most of them either.
My best friend lived in Brighton in the UK (I'm in Canada) and was on disability benefits until he died from a severe physical illness that was unfortunately not diagnosed until a month before his death(!) He did have mental illness as well. His life was gruelling because he couldn't get into social housing/"council flats" and was in a tiny studio flat on a rotating 6-week lease with the constant threat of losing his housing. So this idea of "free housing" for all those on benefits is false. It's an issue in Canada too -- huge wait lists for subsidized housing generally means only "lifers" in the system can get it. Or certain lucky exceptions. Many people, like my friend, are in regular rentals that often cost more than the housing allowance and cut into their living and food allowance.
My poor friend couldn't get any support even though he became physically unable to walk without great pain, and his social worker who was supposed to visit him almost never showed up. Luckily I was able to raise funds among our friends online so he could pay for things like his cab fares to the hospital. The reason I mention this is to counter the idea that those on benefits have everything handed to them.
I'm not sure how the UK compares to Canada, but in Canada we divide our benefits into several types. There is unemployment, welfare, and disability welfare. And there's also disability pension, which is administered by the Canada Pension Plan. Many disabled people receive a combination of welfare disability and pension disability depending on on how long they were able to work.
What I object to is referring to people who don't work, or on welfare or disability as some kind of homogenous group, that they are "lazy" or choose not to work. In Canada people are on welfare for an average of 2.5 years. This average includes those on it for life, so you can see some are on it for a very short time.
There is obviously a balance between making the social programs so easy to get that people can take advantage of them, and so hard to access that people in desperate need fall through the cracks. We are now seeing the pendulum swing to the latter. Unfortunately it's often the immediate, urgent cases that get turned away or are told they must wait weeks while their claim is evaluated.
Here's the thing: We've all seen cases where the system is probably being defrauded. The most common thing in Canada is the single mother on welfare who has a man living with her that social services knows nothing about, who is employed and bringing in a full-time income while she collects welfare. And believe me (because I used to work on a provincial fraud tips line) these cases get reported all the time. But who suffers if the mother's income is cut off? Quite often it's the child.
And even in the scenario Sunspots mention, what can we assume if a parent on benefits is standing there in designer joggers with a new-looking phone? The joggers may be knockoffs, the phone may be purchased stolen. The parent may be buying cigarettes above food for the child. But how on earth are we going to police that? In the end we just have to trust the government workers to do their job, and even if we know some won't, there are others (and I've known several) who are very dedicated.
I know it's tempting when we see the "lifers" people on social services for years and years (and often with subsidized housing etc) who look healthy, to make assumptions. But we simply should not. Whether they have a mental illness or other invisible disability or some may have damaged their bodies through drug use - they are not people to be envied.
And I think sometimes when we do envy these people, it's possibly an indication we need to look at our own physical and mental health and see if we need help and, if so, where we might get it. I pray for everyone here that you find what you need.
i'm not in the same country as you but i have to say this. i was a workaholic that worked between 60 and 80 hours a week when i could work. i was a blue collar worker but made decent money. i also payed a huge amount in taxes. i didn't like it but it was neccessary so i understood. in my country besides taxes we pay 7 1/2 percent for social security and medicare and the employer had to match it, it's different now but similar. i became ill and disabled. yes i'm home 7 days a week but my social security disability insurance covered me, so therefore i paid a small fortune into this system
there are some freeloading bums in every society, i won't argue that. but we don't know every persons true story. there are a lot of people with good reasons they can't work. we need to seperate those that are just plain lazy and those that have a real reason for not working. this of course would cost more tax money but would save money in the long run. i hate that i have to pay full rent when my neighbor pays almost nothing ( i qualify for reduced rent but won't take it).
so unless you can see everyones personal situaton maybe you should not worry about other people. of course you can petition the politicians to reopen debtors prisons and work houses.
mike...
there are some freeloading bums in every society, i won't argue that. but we don't know every persons true story. there are a lot of people with good reasons they can't work. we need to seperate those that are just plain lazy and those that have a real reason for not working. this of course would cost more tax money but would save money in the long run. i hate that i have to pay full rent when my neighbor pays almost nothing ( i qualify for reduced rent but won't take it).
so unless you can see everyones personal situaton maybe you should not worry about other people. of course you can petition the politicians to reopen debtors prisons and work houses.
mike...
I can understand why people have strong feelings about political and social issues, but it seems like the OP was looking for support, but got more debate than support.
My hope is that SF can support people regardless of what their background is, or their beliefs. I don't think we succeeded here.
Imho, if a post can't be focused on supporting the OP, it's better not to post. Regardless of the merits of the arguments made here, it seems like this thread devolved into something that's pushing mtLife closer to suicide, not helping him take a step back.
Maybe this thread should be locked?
My hope is that SF can support people regardless of what their background is, or their beliefs. I don't think we succeeded here.
Imho, if a post can't be focused on supporting the OP, it's better not to post. Regardless of the merits of the arguments made here, it seems like this thread devolved into something that's pushing mtLife closer to suicide, not helping him take a step back.
Maybe this thread should be locked?
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