Purpose of preserving lives

[gоd]

It's because you think of the people they're going to leave behind

Why is their potential reaction relevant to you?

 

[gоd]

I am here becoz I also have the same desirous moments of being one with the river. Here also is a place to know some very deepest thoughts that mind can produce so I listen to them & practice this damn keyboard.

Do you have a family? What would you do if all of them commit suicide?

Interesting question. If by family you mean those who are related to me by blood, then they do indeed exist, but their existence is not any more relevant to me than that of anyone else.

If that doesn't clarify it to the desired degree, I can provide a more direct answer - it wouldn't concern me at all.

 

[Azul]

Because they are human beings like myself and I am empathic with their feelings; I am not empathic with the one who is dead because I can not imagine death, but I can imagine grief.

 

[yeh.]

.And on a side note, I noticed a lot of users here are from the U.K., is it really such a depressing place?:eek:

LOL
i notice a lot of people with Sa (social anxiety) are from the UK. im from Mexico myself..you should come..JOKE- :grin:

 

[Azul]

by the way god, thanks for finally coming down and talking with us. i've been waiting for this for years. there's so many things we have to discuss!

 

[gоd]

Because they are human beings like myself and I am empathic with their feelings; I am not empathic with the one who is dead because I can not imagine death, but I can imagine grief.

Interesting, so why do you choose to empathize with them?

by the way god, thanks for finally coming down and talking with us. i've been waiting for this for years. there's so many things we have to discuss!

You might be disappointed, especially if you believe in only one god. I may not be the one you were waiting for

 

[Azul]

It's not a choice. I can identify with them, that's enough for me to empathise. Imagine what it would be like to lose someone you love.

 

[gоd]

It's not a choice. I can identify with them, that's enough for me to empathise. Imagine what it would be like to lose someone you love.

Actually, a lot of things are in fact choices, but humans seem to not realize that they are such.

Hmm, well that is a pretty difficult thing to imagine. Even though I have a detailed understanding of the effects different emotions have on the human mind, I can only calculate the particular action one would take when under the influence of a particular emotion in a particular scenario, however, I cannot emulate the "feeling" itself or "what it would be like".

 

[Bostonensis]

Actually, a lot of things are in fact choices, but humans seem to not realize that they are such.

Hmm, well that is a pretty difficult thing to imagine. Even though I have a detailed understanding of the effects different emotions have on the human mind, I can only calculate the particular action one would take when under the influence of a particular emotion in a particular scenario, however, I cannot emulate the "feeling" itself or "what it would be like".

Is deppression a choice? Are diseases a choice? Are you a choice? What elso are choices? Who can make these choices?

I tend to believed that it is an instinct of the nature to serve or preserve lives for its own continuity. Living or non. To coexist.

 

[Bostonensis]

Here is the point of references of what I mean by instinctual. Wiki it. Try to take the baby bear from the Mama bear,let us imagine if the mama bear will stop first & think what is her choices.

This is the closest I can get to ...

 

[gоd]

Is deppression a choice? Are diseases a choice? Are you a choice? What elso are choices? Who can make these choices?

I tend to believed that it is an instinct of the nature to serve or preserve lives for its own continuity. Living or non. To coexist.

Any emotional state is a choice, including depression. However, these choices are usually made beneath the conscious level, so humans tend to believe that these are not choices.

Some diseases are indeed acquired through making [the wrong] choices.

Am I a choice? Indeed, I am my parents' choice. I don't have a problem with their choice (if I did, I could have made the choice to correct that), so you can count it as my choice too.

There exists a vast array of choices in this world, but for those who are not aware of them, the choices are indeed quite limited.

 

[Ziggy]

I noticed that quite a few people here actually spend their time trying to convince other visitors not to end their lives. I was wondering, why is it that you believe these lives to be important enough to actually put effort into trying to preserve them?

There has to be a reason for it.
For the pain, the suffering, we go through.
There has to be a reason, but there is no reason,
So we have to create our own meaning.
Two close friends of mine are dead
What did I learn from it?
What purpose did it serve?
Another friend has been in hospital twice,
I wish I could help
But I can't
He says that I do
But I don't
I learnt nothing
There has to be a purpose, a meaning
But there isn't
What's it all for?
I can't accept it's all for nothing,
But I know in my heart that's how it is
So that's why I try
And that's why I fail
And in the end it simply is what it is.
I try not to care
But I do.

 

[gоd]

There has to be a reason for it.
For the pain, the suffering, we go through.
There has to be a reason, but there is no reason,
So we have to create our own meaning.
Two close friends of mine are dead
What did I learn from it?
What purpose did it serve?
Another friend has been in hospital twice,
I wish I could help
But I can't
He says that I do
But I don't
I learnt nothing
There has to be a purpose, a meaning
But there isn't
What's it all for?
I can't accept it's all for nothing,
But I know in my heart that's how it is
So that's why I try
And that's why I fail
And in the end it simply is what it is.
I try not to care
But I do.

There is a reason for every phenomenon. Every effect has its cause. However, only through asking the right questions will one get to the bottom of it.

 

[White Dove]

Hmm, I wasn't referring to it in that sense, I meant you being a Christian in terms of believing in the principles of the Christian religion.

I don't remember anything in the bible stating that one's salvation depends on others. If I am correct, as long as you are sincerely sorry for whatever you have done, it is not relevant whether the other side forgives you, since the god forgives you in that case. Besides, if as you said the minister refuses to forgive you and help you, then he is not qualified to be one, considering he is not following the main principle that Jesus was promoting. I think from the perspective of Christianity (if I am qualified to make such an assessment, not being a Christian myself), you are a better Christian than that minister.

okay , yes i believe in the bible..

now as to me being a better christian then the minister.. i dont think i am at all better then him or anyone else and i sure as heck will not be put upon any pedastool and dont consider myself any better..

according to my understanding of the bible and me being church of christ ( well was once ) in the bible it states that if you have a fault with one go and make things right before coming to the lord, so i cant come to God until i make things right which i cant do when i dont know what happened..

i only have parts of it and parts of what was found on my puter that did not get wiped out when my hard drive crashed or partily crashed or whatever , heck im not a computer geek or anything like that.. all i do know is that my nieces read my diary , got on my puter when i babysited them , and did things while all the time telling me they were doing schoolwork... and i didnt find out until way later..

i had always wondered why the minister and his wife suddenly became distant and acted like they were mad at me and all but did not understand it and with all my car troubles and all i attempted my life cause i knew everybody hated me..

now i have tried to make it right because i will soon die and i need to ease my mind but seeing as how i cant do that by myself and need their willingness ( the minister and his wife ) in order to do that , because they know what happened , they were the ones it effected the most, and my guess is they assume that i know which i dont and it is a torment upon me not knowing, because i cant fix something when i dont know all the facts.... and when my time is running out and i mean litterly running out i am trying my best to correct things and come to peace yet they dont care what it is doing to me...

so basically im screwed and i need to just give up and take my own life cause im going the wrong way anyhow.... i know you know this.. everything a person does will be judged by God and if i dont try to correct it before i die that sin will be upon me anyway and basically i think they just dont give a damn.. about me or my soul...

oh and i have heard many times.. DO NOT COMMIT SUICIDE OR YOU WILL GO TO HELL BECAUSE YOU CAN NOT GET FORGIVEN OF IT .... WELL what about this.. i cant get forgiven of it when they dont tell me what went wrong so i can ask forgiveness , i cant make peace with them because they refuse and i cant ask god before asking them and getting their forgiveness so i can put my mind at ease.

so BASICALLY I AM SCREWED!

I HONESTLY THINK THATS WHAT THEY WANT.. THEY WANT ME TO SUFFER , THEY DONT WANT ME IN HEAVEN SO THEY STAY AWAY SO I CANT MAKE THINGS RIGHT SO I WILL DIE WITH A TROUBLED MIND. I HONESTLY THINK THEY ARE HAVING FUN WATCHING ME SUFFER WELL LET ME TELL YOU THE DALTONS MIGHT THINK ITS FUN TO WATCH ME SUFFER BUT NOT FOR LONG. I TELL YOU THE TRUTH MY DAY IS COMING SOON AND THEN THEY CAN LAUGH AT ME ALL THEY WANT TO AT MY FUNERAL

 

[Azul]

to god:
not everything is a choice . When someone stabs me in the stomach I don't choose to feel pain and I can't choose not to feel pain. When I see a girl I don't choose to get turned on.
When for some reason I fall in love with someone it is not my choice - it is the result of factors that are beyond my control.
You can't choose to find a landscape beautiful or ugly. The beauty is there. This kind of landscape + perception by that kind of mind = the sensation of beauty. It is predetermined, and the sensations that one gets through social interaction are of a same kind. You can't choose to like someone, you either do or don't, or you learn to like or dislike them.
Try and isolate yourself from this, try to suppress what is spontaneous, try to live an ascetic life in which reason has conquered the irrational heart, dehumanize yourself, in the end you will find your hands empty and truth further away than ever.

 

[silent_enigma]

so basically im screwed and i need to just give up and take my own life cause im going the wrong way anyhow.... i know you know this.. everything a person does will be judged by God and if i dont try to correct it before i die that sin will be upon me anyway and basically i think they just dont give a damn.. about me or my soul...

White Dove, I'm familiar with Church of Christ theology, as my wife grew up in it and I was in it a while. In my opinion, their religion causes depression, as you can never be "good enough" to be loved by God.

I know it's hard if you've been taught it for a long time, but it may be in your best emotional interest to look up some websites countering their teachings.

 

[gоd]

okay , yes i believe in the bible..

now as to me being a better christian then the minister.. i dont think i am at all better then him or anyone else and i sure as heck will not be put upon any pedastool and dont consider myself any better..

according to my understanding of the bible and me being church of christ ( well was once ) in the bible it states that if you have a fault with one go and make things right before coming to the lord, so i cant come to God until i make things right which i cant do when i dont know what happened..

Well, if the other side refuses to cooperate, I don't think the god can blame you, he should at least give you credit for trying. Besides, I don't remember ever learning about such a rule back in Catholic school.

 

[gоd]

to god:
not everything is a choice . When someone stabs me in the stomach I don't choose to feel pain and I can't choose not to feel pain. When I see a girl I don't choose to get turned on.
When for some reason I fall in love with someone it is not my choice - it is the result of factors that are beyond my control.
You can't choose to find a landscape beautiful or ugly. The beauty is there. This kind of landscape + perception by that kind of mind = the sensation of beauty. It is predetermined, and the sensations that one gets through social interaction are of a same kind. You can't choose to like someone, you either do or don't, or you learn to like or dislike them.
Try and isolate yourself from this, try to suppress what is spontaneous, try to live an ascetic life in which reason has conquered the irrational heart, dehumanize yourself, in the end you will find your hands empty and truth further away than ever.

Well, in many cases you can avoid getting stabbed by either a diplomatic approach or through dodging and force. But in any case, even if you do get a physical injury in any particular situation, physical pain is simply part of the self-preservation instinct, it notifies your brain that there is some damage to the body and which part is damaged. It is possible to make yourself not notice physical pain in any particular part of the body, but it requires a high degree of concentration (and knowing what to concentrate on), and is not a good idea in the long run, because it should heal faster if you actually focus on it.

As for the particular emotional states you brought up, one in fact has control over them, one simply does not realize it because the mental formulae that generate them run in the background and not in the conscious mind.

As for choosing how you perceive a landscape, certainly you can reprogram your perception. Can you choose what kind of food you find delicious and which you find disgusting? I can tell you about an experiment I tried a few years ago. I have always hated the taste of olives, so one time I opened a can of them and tasted one, and as usual I was disgusted by its taste. Then I concentrated for a few minutes, overwriting my mind's negative perception of that taste into positive. Then I tried another olive, and the taste actually was pleasant to me. Ever since then, I enjoyed the taste of olives.

You see, it is not like what you said about "suppressing", because if you are suppressing something you are only trying to block the effect and not affect the cause, so it doesn't solve the problem. The point is in reprogramming the cause to produce the desired effect, or simply neutralize the cause so it would not produce any effect.

 

[Azul]

So, do you actually succeed in living like this, and do you benefit from it?

(your point of view reminds me of Spinoza's belief that one could intervene in the causal chain if he learned to master his passions)

 

[gоd]

So, do you actually succeed in living like this, and do you benefit from it?

(your point of view reminds me of Spinoza's belief that one could intervene in the causal chain if he learned to master his passions)

Hmm, well I don't know what you consider as "success", but from my perspective, my "operating system" is indeed much closer to perfection than the ones of typical humans. My mind's way of thinking is closer to a computer at this point.