Purpose of preserving lives

[Ziggy]

I used to think "I am me and my friend is my friend" but my friend is part of me and I am part of my friend. It was odd but a while ago I was deeply upset because my cat killed a bird, I was surprised how upset I was, but I came to understand that the cat was part of me and so was the bird too

They are part of the way I see things, understand things, find sense, hope and meaning, they shape the way I think and the thoughts I will have in the future.

My favourite CD is a copy of Beethoven's 9th symphony, I have a connection to that CD, to make the most of that I have to ensure that the CD is in good condition, free from dust and scratches and fingermarks, for my own part I want to make sure as a listener that I am free from distractions, from other thoughts and sounds. Although there is value in both the 'listener' and the 'listened to' it is surely the connection that is most important. How much more important then is our connection to other people.

 

[gоd]

I used to think "I am me and my friend is my friend" but my friend is part of me and I am part of my friend. It was odd but a while ago I was deeply upset because my cat killed a bird, I was surprised how upset I was, but I came to understand that the cat was part of me and so was the bird too

They are part of the way I see things, understand things, find sense, hope and meaning, they shape the way I think and the thoughts I will have in the future.

My favourite CD is a copy of Beethoven's 9th symphony, I have a connection to that CD, to make the most of that I have to ensure that the CD is in good condition, free from dust and scratches and fingermarks, for my own part I want to make sure as a listener that I am free from distractions, from other thoughts and sounds. Although there is value in both the 'listener' and the 'listened to' it is surely the connection that is most important. How much more important then is our connection to other people.

You have an interesting way of thinking. You seem to somewhat understand the relation between physical things in this world. However, your thought model is not very efficient. If you convert it to a "solar model", where you see yourself as the center of the universe and the rays of your consciousness projecting at the surroundings, you can actually have much greater power over the things around you, while being minimally affected by the surroundings yourself.

 

[RainbowChaser]

However, your thought model is not very efficient.

You asked us why we help others, not what the most efficent thought model is. If you don't like the way people think, stop with all the high-horsing and leave them be. We cannot all be you, and quite frankly I wouldn't want to be.

 

[Azul]

"The centre of the universe" yes but only in intention not in reality. A fly would probably think it's the centre of the universe as well.
The intersubjectivity Ziggy is talking about applies only when no particular self is thought of as being a nucleus (that's in fact the basis of this intersubjectivist idea, the condition through which intersubjectivity can be "discovered")

 

[Ziggy]

If everyone always agreed with us we would never learn anything. :biggrin:

(I don't mean we have to accept the other persons opinion but it helps to examine our own in more detail)

 

[gоd]

You asked us why we help others, not what the most efficent thought model is. If you don't like the way people think, stop with all the high-horsing and leave them be. We cannot all be you, and quite frankly I wouldn't want to be.

Hmm, so you believe I am getting off topic? I am not trying to "convert" anyone into my way of thinking, and to be honest, that would be the last thing I would want to do. I am simply commenting and continuing the discussion, don't get so riled up about it

 

[gоd]

"The centre of the universe" yes but only in intention not in reality. A fly would probably think it's the centre of the universe as well.
The intersubjectivity Ziggy is talking about applies only when no particular self is thought of as being a nucleus (that's in fact the basis of this intersubjectivist idea, the condition through which intersubjectivity can be "discovered")

Well, I was simply mentioning that in that model one affects and is affected by other elements equally, while in the "solar model" one has more power over the surroundings. It is one's choice what one ultimately wants anyway.

 

[gоd]

If everyone always agreed with us we would never learn anything. :biggrin:

(I don't mean we have to accept the other persons opinion but it helps to examine our own in more detail)

That is true, but others are not necessary to learn from oneself. Ultimately the most we can learn is from our own selves, and it is not necessarily done through others, it is possible to go straight to the source.

 

[White Dove]

White Dove, I'm familiar with Church of Christ theology, as my wife grew up in it and I was in it a while. In my opinion, their religion causes depression, as you can never be "good enough" to be loved by God.

I know it's hard if you've been taught it for a long time, but it may be in your best emotional interest to look up some websites countering their teachings.

Well i was only in it and currently in it about 6 years i think???

i used to go to second freewill baptist , then another baptist ,

Now though i dont know what to believe anymore... it is like i am danged if i do and danged if i do not..

i got nothing against church of christ at all and that is partly why i still go there while i can.. i was baptized in a church of christ building and into christ , etc and i guess i will stay with them until i die..

if their idea of love is to do this then well i guess my death is upon their hands.. i have done all im suppose to do.. i have pleaded with the minister online here and i know he reads them but yet he refuses , so not if , but when , i pass on , if he doesnt come to help ease my mind then well i guess i will just die with a troubled mind.. i am right now at the point that i am giving up.. i stated my plea to him and i know hes read it or reads them... its up to him and his wife now..

my LIFE IS IN THEIR HANDS NOW... IT LITTERLY IS IN THEIR HANDS... IT DEPENDS UPON THEM NOW AND WHAT THEY DECIDE TO DO..

But im not going to mope around these last few days. like tonight . i am partly drunk and doped up on pain meds so i am numb at the moment , but when the fair comes to cookeville , im going to go to the demo derbies both nights and have some fun cause my life is coming to an end soon..

they both know where i live.. they have my phone number , my address , etc..

IF THEY TRULY LOVE ME AND WANT ME TO STAY AND FIGHT THIS AND WANT ME TO HAVE PEACE OF MIND THEN THEY WILL BE HERE AS SOON AS THEY CAN , IF NOT , WELL THEN MY LIFE FADES AWAY... HECK I CANT BE FORGIVEN BY THEM THEN I CANT MAKE THINGS RIGHT NOR HAVE A TROUBLED MIND , AND SPIRIT PUT TO EASE THEN IM HELLBOUND ANYWAY.

will not have a reason to fight it anyway... heck if a minister of God dont care for my soul or my life then God doesnt care either cause are they not his men??? then well if that is true and the case then well i might as well go on and do it... i have nothing to lose cause im already on the wrong path accoprding to others so i might as well give in...and i got nothing to gain cause im dying anyhow so whats the point in trying to live????

And those that should care dont .

THINK I WONT DO IT????

WELL THATS WHAT YOU THOUGHT THE LAST TIME DIDNT YOU? DIDNT THINK I HAD THE GUTS, THOUGHT IT WAS JUST ME WANTING ATTENTION AND SO FORTH RIGHT?? WELL LET ME ENLIGHTEN YOU... I HAVE EVERYTHING I NEED AND YOU WILL NOT KNOW THE EXACT DAY THIS TIME.. IT WILL JUST HAPPEN. NO WILL YOU KNOW THE EXACT PLACE EITHER.. CAUSE WHEN I GO THIS TIME , IM GONE FOR GOOD..BELIEVE ME IT IS FOOL PROOF... THE OTHER TIMES JUST MADE IT EASIER TO DO...

SO,, YOU GONNA HELP PUT MY MIND AT EASE? YOU GONNA TELL ME WHAT WENT WRONG? SO I CAN MAKE THINGS RIGHT OR AT THE LEAST BIT PUT MY MIND AT EASE OR DO YOU JUST NOT GIVE A DAMN? CALL IT AN ULTIMATIUM I DONT CARE... BUT I AM TIRED OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WENT WRONG.. IT INVOLVES ME AND I HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW..... I NEED THIS TO MAKE THINGS RIGHT WITH GOD.. MY TIME IS COMING TO AN END WITH THIS STUPID CANCER, CANT YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND THAT?? DONT YOU KNOW THAT I AM SPEAKING FROM MY HEART AND YES A BIT ANGRY BECAUSE I CANT COME BACK TO GOD TO GO TO HEAVEN WITHOUT YOUR HELP... WITHOUT YOUR FORGIVENESS, WITHOUT YOU TELLING ME WHAT MY NIECE DID TO YOU , HOW IT HURT YOU.. I CANT DO IT WITH A TROUBLED MIND AND YES IT MAKES ME ANGRY BECAUSE YOU DONT WANT TO SEE ME GO TO HEAVEN.. BUT IF I CANT GO THERE THEN I GUESS IM SCREWED...

LET ME ASK YOU THIS ? HOW MANY UNREPENTED SINS CAN KEEP ONE FROM HEAVEN? YOU PREACHED THAT ONE WOULD DO IT, WELL IF BECAUSE MY NIECE DID THINGS BECAUSE I LET HER DO IT AND I AM JUST AS GUILTY AS HER BECAUSE I LET HER USE MY PUTER THEN THAT MY FRIEND WOULD KEEP ME FROM HEAVEN.. SO ITS UP TO YOU.

THIS IS NOT A JOKE..

YES I SAID A CURSE WORD THERE.... HECK IM ON THE HELLBOUND ROAD ANYHOW AND WANT TO GET BACK ON THE GOOD ONE BUT IF YOU DONT CARE AND YOU BEING A MAN OF GOD THEN GOD DONT CARE AND I MIGHT AS WELL LET SATAN HAVE ME AND GIVE UP.. SO WHAT DO YOU DO?

TIMES RUNNING OUT..

Sorry sf im kind of drunk but got to speak my mind...

 

[Ziggy]

A minister who preaches forgiveness but doesn't forgive
A minister who preaches love but fails to love
Is this what Christianity is really about?

There are many good Christian people on this site
People with such love and compassion and a desire to help others and do good
You have been such an inspiration and help to others
I hope you will continue to do so for a long time to come
Surely that is what being a Christian is really about?

 

[White Dove]

A minister who preaches forgiveness but doesn't forgive
A minister who preaches love but fails to love
Is this what Christianity is really about?

There are many good Christian people on this site
People with such love and compassion and a desire to help others and do good
You have been such an inspiration and help to others
I hope you will continue to do so for a long time to come
Surely that is what being a Christian is really about?

I dont know what i am anymore?

i try to do the right thing and often times i find out either i do it wrong or shouldnt have done it in the first place..

seems i cant do anything right anymore..

oh well.. my time on this earth is about up and maybe with me gone it will help others.. maybe they will finally be happy.. probably they will even laugh when they hear im dead... it will be better for them i guess.. so perhaps my death will make them happy... guess thats what they always wanted.. to me i think that when they resqued me that day they soon regreted it well now they can be happy.. my death will be a gift to them.. it will make them happy..

Sorry about the drunk post last night... when i get to drinking , my feelings and depression mood comes out more, but in all reality it is the only thing that makes me numb and not able to feel any pain is when i can drink enough to numb it...

you know there are some great christians on this forum, really good people , but i dont consider myself a christian or good christian cause i have a lot of demons to battle within myself and an illness that is going to take my life or im gonna do it in a few myself..

its hard when you got a troubled mind and spirit and want to put your mind at ease and be at peace when another one who knows all the details and all of what happened because it effected them yet they dont let me know.. it is torment upon me upon my mind , upon my spirit. maybe they are laughing their heads off cause im in pain, maybe it makes them feel good that i suffer, well i wont be suffering long on it. i tell you that. my time is set and its up to them to help me get peace of mind or not...

they have to come to me. i cant go to them.. i cant send a letter cause it came back refused so its up to them now... i have little time left and thats all im gonna say.. either they help me put my mind at ease or i do it my way and stop all the pain at once...

 

[Bostonensis]

much closer to perfection than the ones of typical humans. My mind's way of thinking is closer to a computer at this point.


Perfection? Where is the start of it & when/how do u consider /know " a State,a point, a time, of Perfection " accomplished?

Between the institutionalization of the church & the society, there is no choice. Maybe we can minimize the impact on us but I cannot completely declare that we have a choice.Some of the ingrainment on my brain is a lifetime battle already,so my governing mind is already contaminated, any decisions I must make must be parallel with the system of the majority.

Presrving /conserving our species runs in our blood ,fight or flight.Sneeze or fart , all are reflexes & instincts. Alive or not,must coexist.Or exit......

 

[gоd]

Perfection? Where is the start of it & when/how do u consider /know " a State,a point, a time, of Perfection " accomplished?

Between the institutionalization of the church & the society, there is no choice. Maybe we can minimize the impact on us but I cannot completely declare that we have a choice.Some of the ingrainment on my brain is a lifetime battle already,so my governing mind is already contaminated, any decisions I must make must be parallel with the system of the majority.

Presrving /conserving our species runs in our blood ,fight or flight.Sneeze or fart , all are reflexes & instincts. Alive or not,must coexist.Or exit......

By perfection I imply the state in which the maximum amount of limiters are removed. By "limiters" I imply psychological formulae that are programmed into our "operating systems" and which restrict our thinking and thus limit our power. Without our minds being restricted by these limiters, we can have a much greater chance at survival and at accomplishing any goals we may have.

 

[Ziggy]

I don't quite understand 'god'...

Q: Do you have a family? What would you do if all of them commit suicide?

A: Interesting question. If by family you mean those who are related to me by blood, then they do indeed exist, but their existence is not any more relevant to me than that of anyone else.

So are the lives of all people equally relevant to you?

So what do you think makes more sense, gambling on a chance at "eternal life" in the "kingdom of Christ"... or putting your effort into ensuring the eternal life of your people, and your own eternal life as part of that people?

And if the 'eternal life of your people' is so important then aren't the individuals that make up 'your people'?

 

[gоd]

I don't quite understand 'god'...



So are the lives of all people equally relevant to you?



And if the 'eternal life of your people' is so important then aren't the individuals that make up 'your people'?

The lives of all members of my people are equally relevant to me. However, the question was "what would I do if they commited suicide", and since I do not have the power to resurrect someone, it is impractical to be concerned about any one having committed suicide.

 

[Ziggy]

'equally relevant' or 'equally important'?

 

[gоd]

'equally relevant' or 'equally important'?

I do not see why you need to ask when you can see for yourself what I wrote.

 

[Bostonensis]

By perfection I imply the state in which the maximum amount of limiters are removed. By "limiters" I imply psychological formulae that are programmed into our "operating systems" and which restrict our thinking and thus limit our power. Without our minds being restricted by these limiters, we can have a much greater chance at survival and at accomplishing any goals we may have.

I am very stupid when it comes to formula, I wish all formula are babies milk,that is easier. You r not telling us about AI ,etc...are you? What kind of limiters do you think causes let's say depression? Can you suggesst what are the elements or ingredients of the psychologic formulae? ae. Depression runs in my family, that is one reason I can get really deep & the desire to be one with the river is hard to manage.

I am still on the side of pre/conservatoion of the earth/universe(?) ,no idea if that is brought about by depression /institutionalzation/just point blank stupidity.or as I believed it is instinctive,fight or flight. Greater chance of survival is my goal. Any goals,I wimbeldon't have any.Zip,nada,no hay,yishabe'.

 

[gоd]

I am very stupid when it comes to formula, I wish all formula are babies milk,that is easier. You r not telling us about AI ,etc...are you? What kind of limiters do you think causes let's say depression? Can you suggesst what are the elements or ingredients of the psychologic formulae? ae. Depression runs in my family, that is one reason I can get really deep & the desire to be one with the river is hard to manage.

I am still on the side of pre/conservatoion of the earth/universe(?) ,no idea if that is brought about by depression /institutionalzation/just point blank stupidity.or as I believed it is instinctive,fight or flight. Greater chance of survival is my goal. Any goals,I wimbeldon't have any.Zip,nada,no hay,yishabe'.

I was just mentioning some computer-related terms that I thought would make it easier to understand what I was implying.

It is hard to explain psychological formulae unless you are somewhat familiar with computer programming. They are basically subconscious thought commands that are triggered by specific thoughts or experiences and initialize a particular reaction in the mind. All emotions are the reactions of particular formulae that they are based on, although psychological formulae are not restricted to only emotions. Since depression is an emotional state, it should be resolved if you figure out the formulae which cause it, because once you know a particular formula you can easily create a reverse formula that will cancel out the original formula. However, the only way to figure out the formulae is to analyse your own state very carefully and asking yourself the right questions. For example, you can ask yourself, "why am I in such a state?" then when you answer with any particular answer, you can continue "why ... ?" and in such a manner until you get to the bottom of it.

 

[Bostonensis]

The limitations of the language. Between theologians & philosphy ,Plato said he certainly do not desire to put knowledge in writing now or in the future ,as it is always subject to misinterpretations & exploitation. Here is the very good example of that.

Plato , Socrates, Thomas de Aquinas ,& one more explained the limitations of written language.