So tired of my narcissistic manager

SamB · Mar 11, 2024

It is certainly the case that the one that complains can be the one that gets pushed out, even when it is clear that they are not the actual problem.
If there are others that are also suffering then I would suggest that you work with them to raise a joint complaint against this person. If the complaint is well thought out, contains specifics of bad behaviour, has evidence and is raised by multiple people then they will find it very hard to resist it.

alice202 · Mar 11, 2024

SamB said:

Well there is a married couple in the group, and I am friendly with the wife - who is the only other woman. Her husband was the first one to complain about this manager, about a week ago, She is really angry too. So I feel like the door is already open. I'm also starting to feel like I can't hold back any longer. I called in sick today, which might make him want to fire me. (He doesn't need a good reason.) But while its fresh in the mind of the HR person, I feel like I should go next. The man who complained is one of the best workers on the team, has good work habits, and is easy to get along with. The obnoxious manager who told me not to speak in one of my own meetings said it to him also. I hope that if I launch a complaint something bigger will happen. Like the managers on the upper side of these middle managers will have a meeting without them so we can speak freely. Maybe I'm too hopeful but I think there are some really good people on the other side. But they have been blind to how these managers operate.

I am friendly with about half the group, and the only ones that don't hate him are those who have been here less than a month. They haven't figured him out yet.

SamB · Mar 11, 2024

If someone has already complained then I think it is a good time to do something.
You could raise a complaint yourself or alternatively you could just tell this other person to tell the investigator that you can verify their complaint and that the investigator should talk to you. Once you get that meeting you can put forward all your own complaints as well, expanding the scope of the complaint if necessary.
You might also then suggest the next person the investigator should talk to about the issues. They should then hopefully realise there is a big issue and interview everyone about it.

alice202 · Mar 11, 2024

This man did tell the HR lady that she should talk to everyone on the team. The only thing that changed for me after that was that one of the senior managers (above the problem guy) called me directly to talk about a part of my work and asked me to invite him to my meeting. I thought it was a very positive step that he was reaching out to me directly instead of going to the project manager, who always distorts things. But the senior manager didn't act like he was investigating anything.

SamB · Mar 11, 2024

Maybe chat to the person that complained and see what they think. It could be that the complaint was very narrow or maybe the investigation has only just started or maybe they are trying to just brush it under the carpet. If it’s the latter then you could make your own complaint, maybe worth trying to find a third person to complain as well.
Management nearly always chose whatever is the easiest option so if you can get enough people to complain then the easiest option becomes to properly deal with the complaint.

alice202 · Mar 12, 2024

Update. So late yesterday the landlord's office got back to me and said I could take as long as I need to get ready for the apartment inspection. This is a huge load off my mind.
I am back at work today. I found out that the HR lady is out most of the week. Also found out that nobody really missed me yesterday. There were like 19 emails from my nasty manager (sent to everyone) with new requirements.

Right now I feel like its too risky to report him. I can't afford to lose this job until I find another one. So I am going to start looking now and just let that be my focus. Its more satisfying to get out than to risk financial distress.

BarryW · Mar 12, 2024

alice202 said:

Wow excellent news! Happy for you on this one.

alice202 said:

That's good, I think? I like to be missed if I am gone a week. But for 1 day, I don't want to be missed.

BarryW · Mar 12, 2024

alice202 said:

That is too many emails for one day. Are they all on the same topic? or completely different topics?

alice202 · Mar 12, 2024

BarryW said:

It feels like too much. My first thought was "is he on meth" or something? Like he was just going crazy. Took me over an hour to go through it all and figure out what he wanted.

BarryW · Mar 12, 2024

If someone wrote me 19 emails in one day.. as long as I didn't have a poor relationship with them (as you mentioned here), I would definitely be bringing the topic up to them. There have got be so many better ways they could have communicated whatever it is they were trying to say.

alice202 · Mar 12, 2024

BarryW said:

They were sent to the whole group... but I guess they all came in yesterday. One of them was a new document (poorly written) emphasizing our roles and responsibilities. It just seemed like a long rant to beat us all into shape. Amongst the group we refer to our morning meeting as "the beatdown". He doesn't think about the effect his behavior has on us. Its demoralizing. And you can't say anything.

BarryW · Mar 12, 2024

I think you have the right approach in looking for a new job. If you don't have a good relationship with your boss, it's almost impossible to enjoy your job. That's my experience, anyway.

alice202 · Mar 28, 2024

This week at work has been awful. They hired some new people a few weeks ago and they've been moving us around. Instead of having one partner I have three. This makes keeping schedules almost impossible. They have also assigned me to something and then unassigned me from it the next day three times.

This morning I was on a phone call with the jerk manager because he asked me to stay after our morning meeting. Then he changed his mind. I told him I was tired of having to adapt to all these unnecessary changes that are all for his convenience. I told him I was tired of being patronized and condescended to. And before I knew it I was screaming at him. He was defending himself and I told him I was also tired of being interrupted and being treated like I'm always wrong and nothing I say matters. The other manager and a couple other people were on the call. He kept talking, trying to argue me down and come out on top. And I said, no I'm done with this conversation, I'm leaving now. And I hung up. By the end I was shouting, but I was no longer able to hold it in.

I didn't hear from the managers all day. I told 3 of my coworker friends what happened. One of my new partners is actually the person who has already complained about him to human resources. So I called him and told him about it, and he said call them NOW. So I did, but once again the person I needed to speak with is out of town till next week. Later in the day another person from Human Resources called me but she was getting ready to go on vacation so it was a short call. She told me I could write up a complaint about him and they would investigate it.

I told her I was afraid of being fired because he will know its me. She said they have a strong anti-retaliation policy. So now I almost feel like I have to file a complaint to protect myself.

One of my male coworkers said this is definitely about sexism because he treats me and the other woman like crap. Its not all about sexism, but for me that's a big part of it.

I didn't plan for this to happen, but I couldn't help myself.

I have a vacation in May and I was hoping I could hold out till then to deal with this, but I can't.

Alice

BarryW · Mar 28, 2024

What a stressful time. I agree at this point it's probably better to file a complaint. It increases the chance of some action being taken to improve the unbearable situation.
On the bright side, maybe the HR investigation will complete before your vacation and you won't have to spend the time off worrying about filing the complaint when you get back.

SamB · Mar 29, 2024

It seems like the cat is out of the bag so I think you have to move forward with your complaint now. When you submit your complaint try and include as many specific examples as possible and provide any evidence you can to support it. If things were witnesses then specify who witnessed it so they can be asked about things. Your manager will likely deny everything and come back with lots of accusations against you. Don’t admit to any wrongdoing yourself, for example don’t say you shouted or anything like that, if they say you did then say if your voice raised it was only to overcome your manager interrupting you. If you can get anyone else to also make complaints it would help.
I hope everything works out for you, we will be here to support you.

alice202 · Mar 29, 2024

BarryW said:

What a stressful time. I agree at this point it's probably better to file a complaint. It increases the chance of some action being taken to improve the unbearable situation.
On the bright side, maybe the HR investigation will complete before your vacation and you won't have to spend the time off worrying about filing the complaint when you get back.

I hope so. Thanks for your support.

alice202 · Mar 29, 2024

SamB said:

It seems like the cat is out of the bag so I think you have to move forward with your complaint now. When you submit your complaint try and include as many specific examples as possible and provide any evidence you can to support it. If things were witnesses then specify who witnessed it so they can be asked about things. Your manager will likely deny everything and come back with lots of accusations against you. Don’t admit to any wrongdoing yourself, for example don’t say you shouted or anything like that, if they say you did then say if your voice raised it was only to overcome your manager interrupting you. If you can get anyone else to also make complaints it would help.
I hope everything works out for you, we will be here to support you.

Thank you for your advice and support. A lot of this is documented or was discussed with coworkers at the time... I just have to document it all.

BarryW · Mar 29, 2024

In your documentation I suggest to focus mostly on things that are undeniable or have witnesses like others mentioned. For example, in a meeting with 5 people, he said or did something, you can mention that. This allows HR to check with the extra people who were there, and ask them what happened instead of just having 'he said she said' between you and him where they can't find the truth.
Any email conversations you have with him should be visible/undeniable to IT. They can go back and look at any previous email, for as long as they store the info on their side, which is usually for years.
You can include things that were only between you and him, with no 'paper trail', but just be aware it's harder for HR to do anything on them.

alice202 · Mar 29, 2024

BarryW said:

Thanks, this is all an IT department so I can get the documented things as long as I remember when it happened. Some of the really annoying stuff happened in phone conversations between us - but I generally told someone else about it right away, so I think that counts as a witness.

alice202 · Apr 4, 2024

Update. So I talked to the person who handles these things. I decided not to file a written complaint because there is no one incident that is really egregious. Just a lot of inappropriate annoying behavior. But I got to pour it all out to this woman for an hour. She told me she was typing the whole time and that she was going to have a discussion with a couple of the higher ups and with the narcissistic manager. She also said her report was going to go into his human resources file.

I was the second person in a few weeks to report him. The other woman on the team is talking to her tomorrow. So that is three of us out of 15. Hopefully that makes 3 reports in his HR file and they start to wonder what the heck is up with this guy.

I have been on this project for over a year, but they changed the contract in November. So I have only been with the current company for 5 months. She was willing to hear about the old stuff, but HR can't really investigate incidents that happened before you worked for them.

I would certainly consider filing a complaint if something bad happens or he lashes out at me. She reassured me that he cannot fire me. So I really have nothing to worry about on that front.

So three of us are telling HR the same things. I think word will get around, and hopefully others will come forward too. That's the only way things will change.

I feel better, although this has all been kind of exhausting.

Alice.