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Callousgirl

Semper Occultus
I'll be interested in what you think about The Testaments. I hope it's worth a sequel. :)
Forgotten about this @Auri until you gave me the like. I do not in general read nonfiction books unless it has a social and political context with the book. With the book, it has three female characters, and it skips around with all three. The prose, the style, and the voice of the three characters were identical to each other. So that is confusing. With the characters, they really lacked character development. One character discovered she was adopted, discovered her mother was a Handmaid, and the seven stages of grief and acceptance only lasted a few pages. It was like discovering yourself as a little girl in pig tails when your looking at family pictures. Oh OK, I was in pig tails and oh OK I was adopted. The characters were all Mary Sue's.

If you liked the Twilight Saga, Cloud Atlas, and The Da Vinci Code and Angles and Demons: you should like the book. I just thought it was random thoughts, and being random so someone can make a movie, with saying the source came from a book. If your a fan, I would say you would come out as feeling as confused and hurt.
 

Auri

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Forgotten about this @Auri until you gave me the like. I do not in general read nonfiction books unless it has a social and political context with the book. With the book, it has three female characters, and it skips around with all three. The prose, the style, and the voice of the three characters were identical to each other. So that is confusing. With the characters, they really lacked character development. One character discovered she was adopted, discovered her mother was a Handmaid, and the seven stages of grief and acceptance only lasted a few pages. It was like discovering yourself as a little girl in pig tails when your looking at family pictures. Oh OK, I was in pig tails and oh OK I was adopted. The characters were all Mary Sue's.

If you liked the Twilight Saga, Cloud Atlas, and The Da Vinci Code and Angles and Demons: you should like the book. I just thought it was random thoughts, and being random so someone can make a movie, with saying the source came from a book. If your a fan, I would say you would come out as feeling as confused and hurt.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. ;) These comparisons are quite eclectic. lol

I actually read the first book (The Handmaid's Tale) and I didn't like it that much, which is the reason I probably won't get this one. I also remember it as being "cold", and the style of the author didn't appeal to me. The ideas were nice, but it was too short to fully develop the concept. Your review doesn't encourage me to pick up this sequel.

I do enjoy the TV series quite much though. The rhythm, world building and character developments are better. Plus, it's well done. I don't think The Testaments will influence the story of the series because it has now 3 seasons and went in a different direction than the book. Maybe she wrote it because the series is very popular.
 

Callousgirl

Semper Occultus
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. ;) These comparisons are quite eclectic. lol

I actually read the first book (The Handmaid's Tale) and I didn't like it that much, which is the reason I probably won't get this one. I also remember it as being "cold", and the style of the author didn't appeal to me. The ideas were nice, but it was too short to fully develop the concept. Your review doesn't encourage me to pick up this sequel.

I do enjoy the TV series quite much though. The rhythm, world building and character developments are better. Plus, it's well done. I don't think The Testaments will influence the story of the series because it has now 3 seasons and went in a different direction than the book. Maybe she wrote it because the series is very popular.
Well @Auri , I do not think the author likes the TV series, or fans dressing up as Handmaids. She quotes herself with the same sentence in the book: "Handmaids are sluts" and I really noticed that. In fact, I had to stop and read it over again, and again, and pause and reflect. When you said too short and fully develop the concept. It was like the Game of Thrones books condensed to 415 pages with the same amount of characters. The three female characters, their first name changes from birth to the name they will use. And they do not have a last name. Two of the female characters, they discover they are half sisters, and when they get to Canada and find their birth mother. Their birth mother does not have any name, and what does she look like, just think a female and that is it. If I a right, there is four female characters with the name Martha and without a last name.
 

sinking_ship

woman overboard
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Well @Auri , I do not think the author likes the TV series, or fans dressing up as Handmaids. She quotes herself with the same sentence in the book: "Handmaids are sluts" and I really noticed that. In fact, I had to stop and read it over again, and again, and pause and reflect. When you said too short and fully develop the concept. It was like the Game of Thrones books condensed to 415 pages with the same amount of characters. The three female characters, their first name changes from birth to the name they will use. And they do not have a last name. Two of the female characters, they discover they are half sisters, and when they get to Canada and find their birth mother. Their birth mother does not have any name, and what does she look like, just think a female and that is it. If I a right, there is four female characters with the name Martha and without a last name.
Oh. It sounds like you need to read the first book then to make sense of it. You seem to be missing a lot of basic facts about the world.

None of the women who are handmaids or Marthas have names. A Martha is just someone who is a maid, and the handmaids only get the name of their commander.

Margaret Atwood does like the series, at least she did as of the first season - she even played a bit role in it.
 

Auri

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Well @Auri , I do not think the author likes the TV series, or fans dressing up as Handmaids. She quotes herself with the same sentence in the book: "Handmaids are sluts" and I really noticed that. In fact, I had to stop and read it over again, and again, and pause and reflect. When you said too short and fully develop the concept. It was like the Game of Thrones books condensed to 415 pages with the same amount of characters. The three female characters, their first name changes from birth to the name they will use. And they do not have a last name. Two of the female characters, they discover they are half sisters, and when they get to Canada and find their birth mother. Their birth mother does not have any name, and what does she look like, just think a female and that is it. If I a right, there is four female characters with the name Martha and without a last name.
Hmm that is not what the author meant in the first book. She cannot write this and believe the handmaids are actual sluts, it makes no sense.
Martha is not a name in this book actually, it's the name of all the house maids, like "Handmaid", or "Wife". The lack of names for females in this book has a meaning.
 

Callousgirl

Semper Occultus
Oh. It sounds like you need to read the first book then to make sense of it. You seem to be missing a lot of basic facts about the world.

None of the women who are handmaids or Marthas have names. A Martha is just someone who is a maid, and the handmaids only get the name of their commander.

Margaret Atwood does like the series, at least she did as of the first season - she even played a bit role in it.
I have read the first books years ago. This is the reason why the book is confusing. Yes, there are Martha's and the commander can name women. But to say, she is a Martha and she is female, than another Martha and she is female, and you cannot explain who is who. There is so little character development, you can only say they are female only. Now one character had a mole, and that was it.

The reason I do not think she likes the TV series, or like women to dress up as a Handmaids. Saying that Handmaids are sluts: I would be very offended if I dressed up as a Handmaid to protest. If I dressed up as a Handmaid to protest, if I support women who dress up as Handmaids to protest. Reading the author saying "Handmaids are sluts" I would be confused and hurt.
 

Innocent Forever

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None. I read about 10 yesterday (most shorter, for they were childrens books - The truth about tash, angels like me - 3 books in the series, alice miranda in school - so cute! I need the next, Angel cake, Vicky Angel, the girl who walked on air - okay 9.5 as I didn't finish that book) and I haven't started another one. Weekends are the time I have to read. Usually I read more but instead of reading I spent time talking to my family and going out so I have 4 more from the library but none look that interesting. And I started Ice Cream Girls by Dorothy Koomson but I'm really not liking it so I probably will stop there. Too much killing/shooting even if it doesn't mention any. And sadness/pain. I like my books to be light reading. If you know any great kids ones or humorous and light adult ones I'd love suggestions.
The last novel I read yesterday was called Blind Faith. I can't find a link online to it. Anywhere. So yeah.
I'm also 'in the middle of' which means I've started at some point in time and haven't continued
The subtle art of not giving a f*ck
This is my god
Goodbye ED, hello me
Face the fear and do it anyways - or something like that it's called
The genesis of justice
Something like believing in hope, not sure the name

Oops, I think this thread was meant to be just the title :(
 

sinking_ship

woman overboard
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SF Supporter
I have read the first books years ago. This is the reason why the book is confusing. Yes, there are Martha's and the commander can name women. But to say, she is a Martha and she is female, than another Martha and she is female, and you cannot explain who is who. There is so little character development, you can only say they are female only. Now one character had a mole, and that was it.
Ah, yeah, see that's a difference between tv and books. In the original book if I recall, since it was only about offred and her household there were not enough repeats to make it confusing. Hard to have many Marthas in a book, but it works well in the show.

The reason I do not think she likes the TV series, or like women to dress up as a Handmaids. Saying that Handmaids are sluts: I would be very offended if I dressed up as a Handmaid to protest. If I dressed up as a Handmaid to protest, if I support women who dress up as Handmaids to protest. Reading the author saying "Handmaids are sluts" I would be confused and hurt.
I don't understand why saying handmaids are sluts would be insulting to people who dress up as handmaids. The whole point is that in the book (the first one, though I am guessing the second too) women are treated as not people. Slut is just one of the many things used to tear them down. But dressing as a handmaid in real life draws attention to those same arguments being used in real life. And yes, in real life people tear down women by calling them sluts.
 

Auri

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I have read the first books years ago. This is the reason why the book is confusing. Yes, there are Martha's and the commander can name women. But to say, she is a Martha and she is female, than another Martha and she is female, and you cannot explain who is who. There is so little character development, you can only say they are female only. Now one character had a mole, and that was it.
Perhaps it is intentional. The author wanted you to see them ONLY as females, the same way this world does. They have no personalities, they are all the same and have the same label : female. Handmaid. Martha. Wife. Aunt. That's it.
 

Callousgirl

Semper Occultus
I don't understand why saying handmaids are sluts would be insulting to people who dress up as handmaids. The whole point is that in the book (the first one, though I am guessing the second too) women are treated as not people. Slut is just one of the many things used to tear them down. But dressing as a handmaid in real life draws attention to those same arguments being used in real life. And yes, in real life people tear down women by calling them sluts.
If you have been waiting to read the book about the Handmaids, your going to be disappointed. The book is about the Pearl Girls, not the Handmaids. Now, if your 8 to 12 years old, I do not mind if your in a organization called Girl Scouts. When your a adult woman, and your a older adult woman, it is problematic being in a organization call "GIRL". With the Handmaids, they are define to be very negative. They are sluts, they are criminals, they are negative. I do not read much nonfiction books, but, with a book that is going to produce more than 500,000 copies. It is the most anti-female book I read that has been published in the last 20 years.
 

sinking_ship

woman overboard
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SF Supporter
If you have been waiting to read the book about the Handmaids, your going to be disappointed. The book is about the Pearl Girls, not the Handmaids. Now, if your 8 to 12 years old, I do not mind if your in a organization called Girl Scouts. When your a adult woman, and your a older adult woman, it is problematic being in a organization call "GIRL". With the Handmaids, they are define to be very negative. They are sluts, they are criminals, they are negative. I do not read much nonfiction books, but, with a book that is going to produce more than 500,000 copies. It is the most anti-female book I read that has been published in the last 20 years.
It's not an anti-female book. It's a book about a dystopian society which is anti-female. There's a big difference. If fiction isn't your thing though, I can see how that wouldn't interest you.
 

Acy

Mama Bear - TLC, Common Sense
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@Callousgirl
Regarding The Handmaid’s Tale (and The Testaments, though I’ve not yet read it)...

I would like to note that Margaret Atwood is one of the most pro-feminist writers in the world. I cannot believe that Atwood, at age 79, would abandon a life-long stand on being pro-feminist in a world that doesn’t always agree with her.

Her books are not about believing that women are sluts or “less than” anyone else. Various characters or the society in which she places them might have that attitude. But generally, the readers see the caustic irony Atwood is presenting. The Handmaid’s Tale is about how the role of women is sometimes reduced to the sexual gratification of men and to procreation - with no regard for women’s needs, desires, intelligence, physical abilities, interests - their human rights. In Atwood’s “Gilead,” there are other people who do not conform to “standards” in the dystopian mainstream, such as LGBTQ people, people who don’t follow the Gilead religion-regime and its rules, people who assist non-conformists to get by or escape to a free country. All women in Gilead are in service of some kind to one or more male figures in the male-led society - housekeepers, cooks, wives, “aunts” who teach the Handmaids what Gilead demands of them, and finally, the procreating Handmaids. The Handmaids might be called “sluts” in the books because they are basically the only women having sex - since they are the only women able to reproduce! Handmaids are forced to have sex with other women’s husbands. They bear the children from those liaisons. Then their child is taken from them and the Handmaids are sent to another man’s household to be forced to have sex and bear his child...Fighting against that society delivers people into the waiting arms of the regime, where they will be killed outright or sent to work in the toxic wastelands. Atwood is not suggesting that any of these situations is a good thing.

The Handmaid’s Tale describes horrific scenarios to make a point about what negative and callous attitudes toward women (and other “different people”) could create. If Atwood literally said to someone, “Handmaids are sluts,” I would like to know the context. I think there would have to be something underlying it that would demonstrate irony and satire as its intention. Handmaids might be viewed by others in the books as sluts, but I don’t think many readers would consider this to be Atwood’s personal view of women or even of her Handmaids. Taken on its own, the statement sounds anti-female. That is not how Atwood is usually viewed.

I think of The Handmaid’s Tale as a “warning.” If we don’t defend the place of women (and “different people”) in the world, we could be setting the stage for our very own real-life Gilead. Atwood based her book on real-life tragedies, traumas, and trends - her “speculative fiction” set in “near futures” is terrifying because it is frighteningly feasible. We are not doomed if we listen and change as a species. I believe that is the message that Atwood wants to share. She is not “ANTI-female.” The fictional Gilead society is anti-female, but the message Atwood brings to us is that we need to be more PRO FEMALE (etc.) and pro people if the world is to improve. (I am now even more curious about where The Testaments goes. :) )
 

Callousgirl

Semper Occultus
The Handmaids might be called “sluts” in the books because they are basically the only women having sex - since they are the only women able to reproduce! Handmaids are forced to have sex with other women’s husbands. They bear the children from those liaisons. Then their child is taken from them and the Handmaids are sent to another man’s household to be forced to have sex and bear his child...Fighting against that society delivers people into the waiting arms of the regime, where they will be killed outright or sent to work in the toxic wastelands. Atwood is not suggesting that any of these situations is a good thing.[/quote]

Callousgirl says:

The Testaments is not, repeat, it is not about the Handmaids. The Testaments is about the Pearl Girls, and the book talks about the Handmaids, and the Pearl Girls, and other women who are not members of both religious orders can have children. The only time in the Testaments, were reproducing was talked about with a character, was only a single character who died in childbirth. The Handmaid's Tale was published in 1985, and the Testaments is not about the Handmaids: it is about the Pearl Girls. The Pearl Girls can have children too, and they accept new members into their religious order not because they can only reproduce children.

One of the main characters was born in Canada, and they wanted her to join the religious order of the Pearl Girls. They made it look like she was a homeless teenager, placed a religious tattoo on her arm to prove to the Pearl Girls she was religious. They took her into their order, and got her to cross the boarder for her religious training. There was no medical testing to prove or disprove she can reproduce children.

Acy said:

[quote]The Handmaid’s Tale describes horrific scenarios to make a point about what negative and callous attitudes toward women (and other “different people”) [I]could[/I] create. If Atwood literally said to someone, “Handmaids are sluts,” I would like to know the context. I think there would have to be something underlying it that would demonstrate irony and satire as its intention. Handmaids might be viewed by others in the books as sluts, but I don’t think many readers would consider this to be Atwood’s personal view of women or even of her Handmaids. Taken on its own, the statement sounds anti-female. That is not how Atwood is usually viewed.[/quote]

Callousgirl says:

The content of the sentence to say "Handmaids are sluts" was about one of the main characters. She was told by a rude and mean female classmate that she was adopted. She was told, her mother was not her birth mother, and her birth mother was a Handmaid. Once again explaining that women can reproduce children without being Handmaids, or the new religious order being Pearl Girls. The seven stages of grief, from finding out your adopted only took like a page to come to an end. It went from being my mother is not my birth mother, and my birth mother was a Handmaid, and all Handmaids are sluts. With the authors logic, if you are adopted, than the accepting of your seven stages of grief, you come to terms your birth mother is a slut. The character herself decided on her own terms, that her birth mother was a slut. And her character moved on without it affecting or effecting her behavior.

Acy said:

[quote]I think of The Handmaid’s Tale as a “warning.” If we don’t defend the place of women (and “different people”) in the world, we could be setting the stage for our very own real-life Gilead. Atwood based her book on real-life tragedies, traumas, and trends - her “speculative fiction” set in “near futures” is terrifying because it is frighteningly feasible. We are not doomed if we listen and change as a species. I believe that is the message that Atwood wants to share. She is not “ANTI-female.” The fictional Gilead society is anti-female, but the message Atwood brings to us is that we need to be more PRO FEMALE (etc.) and pro people if the world is to improve. (I am now even more curious about where The Testaments goes. :) )[/QUOTE]

Callousgirl says:

The Testaments is not really about women's reproduction rights, but, it is more about religion with the religious order being talked about being the Pearl Girls. It is more like a CIA novel, with taken a teenage girl that is clueless about everything. She is from Canada, gets her to be recruited by the Pearl Girls. The Pearl Girls see her as being homeless, being religious because she has a religious tattoo on her arm, and see her being a simple minded teenager who can be changed to accept the values of being a Pearl Girl. Someone who is in the resistance within the Pearl Girl organization, places critical information about the Pearl Girl organization and about Gilead into her skin. Then she is smuggled back into Canada with her discovered half sister. The information is recovered, and Canada uses the media to inform the people of Gilead what is going on. A revolution happens, and with the help of Canada, Gilead collapses. The Handmaids are gone, the Pearl Girls are gone, and Gilead is gone. And in the end, historians in June 2197 talk about the collapse. Talk about the Handmaid being return to her two daughters, who are half sisters, and both fathers: reunited together in Canada and live their entire life in Canada. The Handmaid mother, and the two fathers, they have no names.

It is like rewriting the Twilight Saga. It is like Bella Swan meets a secret government agency, and asked to hang around Edward Cullen and over time to become a vampire.
 
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Callousgirl

Semper Occultus
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