-
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: Please read THIS THREAD about a rebrand for SF.
Musings, ideas, what are you thinking about?
- Thread starter Gonz
- Start date
yeah shinee is 2nd gen. this is kinda how i look at it. the 2nd generation was a gamechanger where kpop started becoming really high quality. and during this generation kpop slowly became popular around the world. by the time we hit the point where kpop has become a global phenomenon, that's what i call the beginning of the third generation. and the tone and style of both are a little different. not much really.
Thanks @JDot. I don't know about 1st generation at all but I'll probably investigate one day. So much to listen to right now! I hear people say it's not as good now or they can't tell them apart because there are so many new groups but I really like them. The only ones I don't care for are the sugary sweet 'little girl' groups. Who do you like?
Oh boy hold on tight. This is going to be long.
Yes Shinee and SuJu are 2nd gen.
A.) If you have heard of Fin.K.L, H.O.T., G.O.D., sechkies, baby vox - they are some of the 1st gen kwave groups. (I may have misspelled some group names).
•Basically any kpop group before 2008 and 2014 are 1st gen.
•2008-2014 (rough estimation) are 2nd gen kwave
(They started to hit international fans outside S.Korea and opened up new gates of style and attempted to also enter the western music industry )
•And any group after 2014 are 3rd gen kwave (which are doing better when it comes to international music industry compared to 2nd gen)
B.) Now when it comes to composers and or producers...
Yes they do work with same composers and producers — even those who are from the western world, which may explain why some songs from the west and east and vise versa can be given to different artists with similar music composition or to a point where they have their own version of the song
Like Mercy sang by Duffy and Dancing Queen by SNSD
Similarly these composers/producers may work with different kpop company (if they don’t have exclusive partnership with one)... which may also end up giving similar style of songs to different kpop groups from different companies.
As for the comparison, yes some songs from Shinee may have also been given to SuJu and vice versa because they belong to the same company SM Entertainment. Basically there’s a chance that they may have had trial and error with the songs and may have given that to whichever kpop group they own that can best suit the concept of the song in their perspective.
Which is why i feel f(x) and SNSD can easily have had own Zimzalabim of Red Velvet because they are after all from the same company SM Entertainment
And same with BlackPink and 2NE1 because they’re both from YG
C.) Now where do some groups go
• with male groups
Yes, you are correct all korean male citizen are required to have a military service except if there are reasons that could exempt and or not qualify them for entry (which is looked down upon in the S.Korean community)
•Now in General
Any girl or boy groups shelf expectancy will depend on their popularity, relationship with their company and group, and their personal standing in the community
1.) popularity
If the group is doing well, then they will keep working and keep coming back for new songs as long as they are still profitable towards their company and fans.
If they don’t, there is no “comebacks” and worst is disbandment/dissolution of the group.
2. Relationship with the Company
All kpop groups have trained for years and decades before their company decides to debut them as a soloist or a group
But contracts can be tricky which can end up artists being in debt, owing the company a lot of money that the artist wont be earning much or nothing at all.
And if the artists/groups and their company have differences, this can end up to court issues to which the artists/group want out of the company and the company not letting the group own their name and songs, such as what happened to DBSK... and similarly to BAP.
3.) Standing
These involves both 1 and 2 but also personal standing of each individual person be it a soloist or as a group.
With that comes in scandals (i’ll try my best to recall what i can possibly remember)
3.1.) Death
— Ladies Code Car accident leading to the death of 3 members and the manager. Raised an issue about how artists are treated poorly squeezing in too many work commitment and their health and safety aren’t prioritized last or not prioritized at all.
—Suicide of Jonghyun (Shinee) raised awareness as to how depression is treated and looked at negatively in the society that those going through may never get the help they needed which end up to these people succumbing to suicide.
Luckily these groups still push through and are still making songs although it really greatly affected their popularity/standing in the community.
3.2.) Issues and Scandals
- Group differences
When T-ara group issues, band members leaving due to differences and bullying from members and managers.
It tarnished their image in the community both individually and as a group
Jessica (SNSD), she wanted to have her own line and perhaps get married, the issue here was back and forth between her, SNSD group mates, and SM Entertainment as to what really were the issue(s) that ended her either being kicked out or leaving the group.
- Scandal
Park Bom (2NE1)
Drugs are strictly prohibited in the S.Korea
And when Park Bom’s investigation of her medication from years ago went public, that damaged the standing of 2NE1, all group activities where on hold, individual promotions was possible but ultimately it led to the dissolution of the group which gave birth to BlackPink so YG is still earning money.
Seungri (BIG BANG)
His scandal is the latest and you may have hear of his case about prostitution which involved other artists too that all led to them leaving their careers and kpop groups.
Some BIG BANG members have also had drug scandals but since military service is being attended to three members, the group’s fate is yet to be determined.
Dating, some companies prohibits dating and being in a relationship while artists and groups are still in contract with their company. Failure to follow can leave to the person being kicked out of the group or kicked out of the company like what happened to girl group KISS and Hyuna (4minute).
Some groups disbanded because members wanted to pursue a solo career or an acting career
- Age, and company’s “investment”
The Old disappears so the Young can have space
Like After School, members are becoming too old (company’s perspective), so they make them graduate members and add in new younger members.
At the same time their company was mismanaging them with how they are utilizing Afterschool’s profit in investing in debuting other groups instead of Afterschool instead... the worst came when those investment for new groups didn’t go well and all those new groups were dissolved and profit was all loss.
Which is also why the group After School never had “comeback” for so long that member grew older and started looking for other careers.
If you as an artist and or a group dont have any planned comeback then you are not going to earn anything and this can also depend as to how well the sales were (from your last comeback/performance.)
Now with Age such as that of Sunmi of Wonder girls, she got married and had a child and she never came back.
Age affects a group’s standing, everyone outgrows the interest of the group and physically grows old and have different careers. And that naturally makes way for the newer, and younger artists and groups.
And as new groups become more popular and bigger, that puts the older groups at the back seat which may end up disbanding because their group is no longer profitable.
Lastly, Girl groups are treated unfairly compared to Boy groups.
Girls are more scrutinized with every inch of their look and behavior, while boy groups dont get as much of a harsh treatment.
Yes Shinee and SuJu are 2nd gen.
A.) If you have heard of Fin.K.L, H.O.T., G.O.D., sechkies, baby vox - they are some of the 1st gen kwave groups. (I may have misspelled some group names).
•Basically any kpop group before 2008 and 2014 are 1st gen.
•2008-2014 (rough estimation) are 2nd gen kwave
(They started to hit international fans outside S.Korea and opened up new gates of style and attempted to also enter the western music industry )
•And any group after 2014 are 3rd gen kwave (which are doing better when it comes to international music industry compared to 2nd gen)
B.) Now when it comes to composers and or producers...
Yes they do work with same composers and producers — even those who are from the western world, which may explain why some songs from the west and east and vise versa can be given to different artists with similar music composition or to a point where they have their own version of the song
Like Mercy sang by Duffy and Dancing Queen by SNSD
Similarly these composers/producers may work with different kpop company (if they don’t have exclusive partnership with one)... which may also end up giving similar style of songs to different kpop groups from different companies.
As for the comparison, yes some songs from Shinee may have also been given to SuJu and vice versa because they belong to the same company SM Entertainment. Basically there’s a chance that they may have had trial and error with the songs and may have given that to whichever kpop group they own that can best suit the concept of the song in their perspective.
Which is why i feel f(x) and SNSD can easily have had own Zimzalabim of Red Velvet because they are after all from the same company SM Entertainment
And same with BlackPink and 2NE1 because they’re both from YG
C.) Now where do some groups go
• with male groups
Yes, you are correct all korean male citizen are required to have a military service except if there are reasons that could exempt and or not qualify them for entry (which is looked down upon in the S.Korean community)
•Now in General
Any girl or boy groups shelf expectancy will depend on their popularity, relationship with their company and group, and their personal standing in the community
1.) popularity
If the group is doing well, then they will keep working and keep coming back for new songs as long as they are still profitable towards their company and fans.
If they don’t, there is no “comebacks” and worst is disbandment/dissolution of the group.
2. Relationship with the Company
All kpop groups have trained for years and decades before their company decides to debut them as a soloist or a group
But contracts can be tricky which can end up artists being in debt, owing the company a lot of money that the artist wont be earning much or nothing at all.
And if the artists/groups and their company have differences, this can end up to court issues to which the artists/group want out of the company and the company not letting the group own their name and songs, such as what happened to DBSK... and similarly to BAP.
3.) Standing
These involves both 1 and 2 but also personal standing of each individual person be it a soloist or as a group.
With that comes in scandals (i’ll try my best to recall what i can possibly remember)
3.1.) Death
— Ladies Code Car accident leading to the death of 3 members and the manager. Raised an issue about how artists are treated poorly squeezing in too many work commitment and their health and safety aren’t prioritized last or not prioritized at all.
—Suicide of Jonghyun (Shinee) raised awareness as to how depression is treated and looked at negatively in the society that those going through may never get the help they needed which end up to these people succumbing to suicide.
Luckily these groups still push through and are still making songs although it really greatly affected their popularity/standing in the community.
3.2.) Issues and Scandals
- Group differences
When T-ara group issues, band members leaving due to differences and bullying from members and managers.
It tarnished their image in the community both individually and as a group
Jessica (SNSD), she wanted to have her own line and perhaps get married, the issue here was back and forth between her, SNSD group mates, and SM Entertainment as to what really were the issue(s) that ended her either being kicked out or leaving the group.
- Scandal
Park Bom (2NE1)
Drugs are strictly prohibited in the S.Korea
And when Park Bom’s investigation of her medication from years ago went public, that damaged the standing of 2NE1, all group activities where on hold, individual promotions was possible but ultimately it led to the dissolution of the group which gave birth to BlackPink so YG is still earning money.
Seungri (BIG BANG)
His scandal is the latest and you may have hear of his case about prostitution which involved other artists too that all led to them leaving their careers and kpop groups.
Some BIG BANG members have also had drug scandals but since military service is being attended to three members, the group’s fate is yet to be determined.
Dating, some companies prohibits dating and being in a relationship while artists and groups are still in contract with their company. Failure to follow can leave to the person being kicked out of the group or kicked out of the company like what happened to girl group KISS and Hyuna (4minute).
Some groups disbanded because members wanted to pursue a solo career or an acting career
- Age, and company’s “investment”
The Old disappears so the Young can have space
Like After School, members are becoming too old (company’s perspective), so they make them graduate members and add in new younger members.
At the same time their company was mismanaging them with how they are utilizing Afterschool’s profit in investing in debuting other groups instead of Afterschool instead... the worst came when those investment for new groups didn’t go well and all those new groups were dissolved and profit was all loss.
Which is also why the group After School never had “comeback” for so long that member grew older and started looking for other careers.
If you as an artist and or a group dont have any planned comeback then you are not going to earn anything and this can also depend as to how well the sales were (from your last comeback/performance.)
Now with Age such as that of Sunmi of Wonder girls, she got married and had a child and she never came back.
Age affects a group’s standing, everyone outgrows the interest of the group and physically grows old and have different careers. And that naturally makes way for the newer, and younger artists and groups.
And as new groups become more popular and bigger, that puts the older groups at the back seat which may end up disbanding because their group is no longer profitable.
Lastly, Girl groups are treated unfairly compared to Boy groups.
Girls are more scrutinized with every inch of their look and behavior, while boy groups dont get as much of a harsh treatment.
Last edited:
No, unfortunately, because that's impossible for any of us. But remember that anxiety was what helped our ancestors survive and our families survive throughout generations. So even though it feels like pure hell, its only true purpose is to help you stay safe and make good judgements in the present and future.
That's true however I'm not talking about natural anxiety flight or fight response or natural anxiety from job interviews, making good judgement etc, i'm talking about whether i'll ever be free from severe anxiety such as vomiting/pulling hair out/losing hair etc...anxiety that is taking over my whole life.
Anxiety is anxiety. It all serves the same purpose on an evolutionary scale, whether it's mild or a full on panic attack. And yes, it's true that the types of things we get anxious about in this day and age aren't worth getting anxious about, and I think like Auri said, a part of it might still stick with you, as it probably will with me as well. But you feel anxious and then you move on to better times when it goes away. That's always how it works right? It never lasts forever.
What you are saying makes great sense, going over and over it for 20 years, the feeling is kind of natural, I woke up a few mornings ago and there was no anxiety, that is incredibly rare for me, i was like wtf is going on here, so yeah, i suppose we do just get used to it and fight it even when not actually trying to, naturally..