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What animal suicide says about us

alixer

We are all one
SF Supporter
#1
I’ve been trying very hard to understand why life is so unpalatable. The question of whether animals commit suicide is ageless, and the verdict seems to be still out. What is not easily debated is to the extent which displeasure plagues humanity, despite how much easier it is for us to fullfill our basic needs. In other words, animals fight every day for their survival, but we kill ourselves more.

So, why is that? Are we victims of existence or of ourselves? Absent any further proof, the conclusion seems clear: Life as we know it, as we have propped it up through our own construct of society, is fundamentally flawed.

We’ve taken a system built from suffering and set it up to be powered by suffering. Life is suffering, and that would be tolerable except we’re told suffering is good (hard work, sacrifice, pain). You eventually reach a point when that proposition crumbles. The problem with life isn’t life; it’s us. Suicide is a social phenomenon, and we are not its consequence; we are its instigator.

I don’t know what the alternative is. We obviously lived more like animals before, and we grew tired of that. But we’ve equally grown tired of whatever the hell this is.
 

MosesY

Well-Known Member
#2
Depression comes from the way our brain works. It is not up to us; it is our genetics. We have three facets; genetics, environment, and choices. These three facets make us the person we are. Our choices are only one third of who we are. When synapses fire slowly in the brain we are depressed; everything is dark and gray in our life, nothing is worthwhile, nothing is worth living for. It is a function of the brain. If our synapses function at "normal" speed, we enjoy life. Another function of genetics is intelligence. People are born with various intelligence quotients (IQ). Smart people and not so smart people can both suffer from depression due to their brain function but in general smarter people enjoy life more, they have more money, more things, better relationships, etc. This is a function of genetics, not choice. Another facet is environment. Some people are born into very wealthy families. In general wealthy people enjoy life more. They have more things to entertain themselves with, they have beautiful houses, etc. On the other hand both intelligent and wealthy people can suffer from depression and suicidal ideation due to brain function. If your synapses fire slow you will be depressed no matter what.

I do not believe animals reason to the extent that humans do. If an animal is depressed it cannot identify that feeling; a human can. A human can seek help, get medication and therapy, etc. where an animal cannot.
 

MichaelKay

Well-Known Member
#3
Isn't the problem our intelligence and understanding? We speculate about life and death from an early age, invent religions to justify it and give us purpose. I'm not sure animals need justification or thinking of their legacy to live.

I love nature and animals in particular because they aren't weighed down by excessive rumination but are controlled by instincts (as far as I can tell). They don't cry for 5 years if they lose a paw or lay down and speculate about how unfair life is when they are starving. They just act. They just are. "Pure being" somehow. I envy animals for being able to do that.
 

Walker

Admin-a-monkey
ADMIN
SF Social Media
SF Author
SF Supporter
#4
Suicide is a social phenomenon
This is true. Look at a lot of other countries where people undeniably have it a hell of a lot worse than 99% of us do just getting by day to day and those people aren't killing themselves. They don't wallow in the fact that they have to walk 5 miles to get water - they just DO IT. They're struggling daily to live life, to get by and to grow older while other countries are killing themselves at a rapid pace because of perceived slights, money, politics and emotional disturbance. It's kind of nuts.
 

alixer

We are all one
SF Supporter
#5
Depression comes from the way our brain works. It is not up to us; it is our genetics. We have three facets; genetics, environment, and choices. These three facets make us the person we are. Our choices are only one third of who we are. When synapses fire slowly in the brain we are depressed; everything is dark and gray in our life, nothing is worthwhile, nothing is worth living for. It is a function of the brain. If our synapses function at "normal" speed, we enjoy life. Another function of genetics is intelligence. People are born with various intelligence quotients (IQ). Smart people and not so smart people can both suffer from depression due to their brain function but in general smarter people enjoy life more, they have more money, more things, better relationships, etc. This is a function of genetics, not choice. Another facet is environment. Some people are born into very wealthy families. In general wealthy people enjoy life more. They have more things to entertain themselves with, they have beautiful houses, etc. On the other hand both intelligent and wealthy people can suffer from depression and suicidal ideation due to brain function. If your synapses fire slow you will be depressed no matter what.

I do not believe animals reason to the extent that humans do. If an animal is depressed it cannot identify that feeling; a human can. A human can seek help, get medication and therapy, etc. where an animal cannot.
I of course don’t reject depression as a disease. My point is that I believe the high prevalence of dissatisfaction in our world is indicative of something else ALSO at play. So many people without mental illness are told, “Oh you’re upset you can’t afford the things you want because of growing income disparity? You must be depressed.” Realising the society we have built for ourselves sucks is not a sign of mental illness...; it’s a sign of mental health. Things do suck, and we’re to blame. Again, this is SEPARATE from legitimate cases of depression.
 

alixer

We are all one
SF Supporter
#6
This is true. Look at a lot of other countries where people undeniably have it a hell of a lot worse than 99% of us do just getting by day to day and those people aren't killing themselves. They don't wallow in the fact that they have to walk 5 miles to get water - they just DO IT. They're struggling daily to live life, to get by and to grow older while other countries are killing themselves at a rapid pace because of perceived slights, money, politics and emotional disturbance. It's kind of nuts.
Exactly. Great points.
 

MosesY

Well-Known Member
#7
I of course don’t reject depression as a disease. My point is that I believe the high prevalence of dissatisfaction in our world is indicative of something else ALSO at play. So many people without mental illness are told, “Oh you’re upset you can’t afford the things you want because of growing income disparity? You must be depressed.” Realising the society we have built for ourselves sucks is not a sign of mental illness...; it’s a sign of mental health. Things do suck, and we’re to blame. Again, this is SEPARATE from legitimate cases of depression.
Things do not suck.

Here in AMerica we can buy whatever we want. Things cost various prices and we have to work accordingly to buy them. This is known to a natural healthy brain.

A brain that is not natural says "I want a Lamborghini" but they have no idea what that entails. They have a low intelligence level. Their synapses fire slowly. They do not comprehend the amount of work it takes to get a Lamborghini. They are not normal. A very small percentage of people in the US commit suicide. In 2018 less than 45,000 people committed suicide. ALmost all of these were probably people whose synapses fired slowly. There were probably none who said "I want a Lamborghini and can't afford one, I am going to kill myself."
 

alixer

We are all one
SF Supporter
#8
Things don’t suck? You can just take a landscape view of all the suffering taking place, in this year of all years – but let’s not kid ourselves about previous years – and go, “Yup, things definitely don’t suck.” To be anle to turn a blind eye to all that is amazing.
 

alixer

We are all one
SF Supporter
#9
Things do not suck.

Here in AMerica we can buy whatever we want. Things cost various prices and we have to work accordingly to buy them. This is known to a natural healthy brain.

A brain that is not natural says "I want a Lamborghini" but they have no idea what that entails. They have a low intelligence level. Their synapses fire slowly. They do not comprehend the amount of work it takes to get a Lamborghini. They are not normal. A very small percentage of people in the US commit suicide. In 2018 less than 45,000 people committed suicide. ALmost all of these were probably people whose synapses fired slowly. There were probably none who said "I want a Lamborghini and can't afford one, I am going to kill myself."
Things don’t suck? You can just take a landscape view of all the suffering taking place, in this year of all years – but let’s not kid ourselves about previous years – and go, “Yup, things definitely don’t suck.” To be anle to turn a blind eye to all that is amazing.
 

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