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Therapy round 2

Dark111

Scholar's Mate
SF Supporter
#21
It's part of what I'm working on. I don't really know how to think differently though. I can try to catch myself when it's a conscious thought and point myself in a different direction, but ultimately it doesn't feel like a choice - it's such an engrained thing, it's in my gut, the feeling of it.
Sure but you weren't born hating yourself either, right? That's all programmed garbage. And when you believe it long enough, of course it becomes a gut thing. It gets into your bones.

But It is within your control to change that. Like I said, it won't feel right. It will feel forced and unnatural. People who grew up in dysfunctional homes don't feel right when learning to act 'healthy'. It's just strange to you coz it's not what you're used to.
 

Legate Lanius

Try not to kill yourself 2020 challenge.
#22
Hey Nick. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I think that's the ever-present tug-of-war with many mental health professionals. They see it as their job to make us as 'functional' as possible, mold us as much as possible into well-adjusted productive citizens. And to a certain extent I see the practicality in this approach. They take a sort of engineering approach to it. But where do you draw the line between functional and who you truly are? Maybe that's the trade-off. Maybe to live in some sort of peace, you have to sacrifice some part of yourself and become something else.
Yes, first they try to rope you in by getting you to say "I'd like to have a job/girlfriend/etc" and then they can charge one million US dollars worth of telling you to wake up at the same time every day, to exercise, and so on. Then when you lose your "goals" the next day and you no longer want to be employed or borrow a girlfriend, you realize that they just screwed you out of that money. You get screwed, that's why they are called therapists, the rapists.
 

Dark111

Scholar's Mate
SF Supporter
#23
My therapist dropped me today. Granted, the last couple of sessions were fairly antagonistic, particularly when I challenged her approach or turned the tables on her:

"Antisocial personality disorder is a chronic mental health condition, informally known as sociopathy, characterized by a disregard the feelings and rights of others.....therapists typically terminate therapy when the therapist determines that the patient's problem is beyond the therapist's scope of competence or scope of license, when the therapist determines that the patient is not benefiting from the treatment, in the course of treatment.....

......Deception of the patient with antisocial personality disorder is most likely to occur when the psychotherapist is frightened of the patient, especially of the patient’s rage if certain limits are set surrounding treatment. It may also indicate superego problems in the clinician, the avoidance of anxiety, passive-aggressive rejection of the patient, or an identification with the deceptive skills of the patient with antisocial personality disorder. Rigorous honesty without self-disclosure is the treatment rule with antisocial personality disorder patients. "

Is it back to the talk-therapy drawing board or wait and see which kick-ass drugs the shrink prescribes next month?

I've always been a fan of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, but when are they get their asses in gear and get the Soma rolling..
 
Last edited:
#24
My therapist dropped me today. Granted, the last couple of sessions were fairly antagonistic, particularly when I challenged her approach or turned the tables on her:

"Antisocial personality disorder is a chronic mental health condition, informally known as sociopathy, characterized by a disregard the feelings and rights of others.....therapists typically terminate therapy when the therapist determines that the patient's problem is beyond the therapist's scope of competence or scope of license, when the therapist determines that the patient is not benefiting from the treatment, in the course of treatment.....

......Deception of the patient with antisocial personality disorder is most likely to occur when the psychotherapist is frightened of the patient, especially of the patient’s rage if certain limits are set surrounding treatment. It may also indicate superego problems in the clinician, the avoidance of anxiety, passive-aggressive rejection of the patient, or an identification with the deceptive skills of the patient with antisocial personality disorder. Rigorous honesty without self-disclosure is the treatment rule with antisocial personality disorder patients. "

Is it back to the talk-therapy drawing board or wait and see which kick-ass drugs the shrink prescribes next month?

I've always been a fan of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, but when are they get their asses in gear and get the Soma rolling..
Well, if it were me—& this is speaking strictly from a personal point of view—if any one of those reasons were the one, or ones (given or not), as to why she chose to walk away / call it off, etc. I would quite honestly thank her, say “goodbye!” And begin my search/quest for the next. It needs to be a good fit, between the two of you, or you’re just not going to be able to work together & accomplish things, or get things done (in my opinion). . .
Maybe she just wasn’t smart enough? You never know... not everyone graduates at the top of their class or is at a level within their chosen profession to be able to get through to some of the more challenging/difficult- whatever you want to call or label it clients (I would put myself into this category, but for entirely different reasons: for instance; I don’t see anybody getting intimidated by my intellect, but they may find me more trouble than I’m worth once I start trying to get inside their heads, and toy with them - or used to! ;)) I’ve matured — or mellowed, with age.
so I think if I haven’t already said it, she did you a favor and the last thing you’d want, I think, is to have a doctor in any discipline who’d rather not have you as their client / patient. I know it happens... I think it’s happening to me right now in another area, and it is (or can be) a very “powerless,” feeling. Anyway, the psych field is one of the last places I’d care to see this occur, due to the delicate nature (& power, by the way) of the mind. It is still a very mysterious thing - and we cannot, for instance, have a physiological test done in order to tell us that we’ve got schizophrenia, or what have you (meaning, at times, even in relation to the other “fields,” it truly is all, “guess with in a white coat!”

I always felt I’d gotten more out of 5 minutes with my psychiatrist, than I did 50 minutes with my psychologist. But maybe that’s because I respected him (& therefore- in part, greatly my fault). That said, some of them - the therapist s were true idiots, making me question the veracity/or voracity—see I’m so dumb I can’t even think of the right word! Let’s just say ‘authenticity,’ of their claims, via their degrees & credentials & c & c. :^)
 
#25
Guess “work,” in a white coat...

And maybe I just should have said, or used “credible,” as in “credibility,” at the end there with I got a little lost. . . (Which is nothing new with me!) : )
 

Innocent Forever

Still innocent!
SF Supporter
#27
My therapist dropped me today. Granted, the last couple of sessions were fairly antagonistic, particularly when I challenged her approach or turned the tables on her:

"Antisocial personality disorder is a chronic mental health condition, informally known as sociopathy, characterized by a disregard the feelings and rights of others.....therapists typically terminate therapy when the therapist determines that the patient's problem is beyond the therapist's scope of competence or scope of license, when the therapist determines that the patient is not benefiting from the treatment, in the course of treatment.....

......Deception of the patient with antisocial personality disorder is most likely to occur when the psychotherapist is frightened of the patient, especially of the patient’s rage if certain limits are set surrounding treatment. It may also indicate superego problems in the clinician, the avoidance of anxiety, passive-aggressive rejection of the patient, or an identification with the deceptive skills of the patient with antisocial personality disorder. Rigorous honesty without self-disclosure is the treatment rule with antisocial personality disorder patients. "

Is it back to the talk-therapy drawing board or wait and see which kick-ass drugs the shrink prescribes next month?

I've always been a fan of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, but when are they get their asses in gear and get the Soma rolling..
You deserve more than that.

Were any of the books she suggested helpful to read? At the moment that's what I'm trying to do. Educate myself.
 

Dark111

Scholar's Mate
SF Supporter
#28
Well, if it were me—& this is speaking strictly from a personal point of view—if any one of those reasons were the one, or ones (given or not), as to why she chose to walk away / call it off, etc. I would quite honestly thank her, say “goodbye!” And begin my search/quest for the next. It needs to be a good fit, between the two of you, or you’re just not going to be able to work together & accomplish things, or get things done (in my opinion). . .
Maybe she just wasn’t smart enough? You never know... not everyone graduates at the top of their class or is at a level within their chosen profession to be able to get through to some of the more challenging/difficult- whatever you want to call or label it clients (I would put myself into this category, but for entirely different reasons: for instance; I don’t see anybody getting intimidated by my intellect, but they may find me more trouble than I’m worth once I start trying to get inside their heads, and toy with them - or used to! ;)) I’ve matured — or mellowed, with age.
so I think if I haven’t already said it, she did you a favor and the last thing you’d want, I think, is to have a doctor in any discipline who’d rather not have you as their client / patient. I know it happens... I think it’s happening to me right now in another area, and it is (or can be) a very “powerless,” feeling. Anyway, the psych field is one of the last places I’d care to see this occur, due to the delicate nature (& power, by the way) of the mind. It is still a very mysterious thing - and we cannot, for instance, have a physiological test done in order to tell us that we’ve got schizophrenia, or what have you (meaning, at times, even in relation to the other “fields,” it truly is all, “guess with in a white coat!”

I always felt I’d gotten more out of 5 minutes with my psychiatrist, than I did 50 minutes with my psychologist. But maybe that’s because I respected him (& therefore- in part, greatly my fault). That said, some of them - the therapist s were true idiots, making me question the veracity/or voracity—see I’m so dumb I can’t even think of the right word! Let’s just say ‘authenticity,’ of their claims, via their degrees & credentials & c & c. :^)
Thanks for your feedback, MisterBGone. It's interesting to hear about your own experiences.

But when it comes to me, I think you're being way too kind. My therapist was plenty smart. Smart enough to know there's not much you can do with ASPD, which is a notoriously difficult condition to treat. Some schools of thought even believe it's immune to treatment. I'm certainly not smart, I'm just stubborn combined with being dumb as rocks. I don't even understand the meaning of some pretty basic words and my ability for BS if off the charts. But it's only the dumb BS I can manage, no sophistication built into it at all. Somebody with a lobotomy could recognize it. In fact it was probably my Plebeian low IQ that frustrated her more than anything.

Thanks again, MisterBGone, hope you're keeping well.
 

Dark111

Scholar's Mate
SF Supporter
#29
You deserve more than that.

Were any of the books she suggested helpful to read? At the moment that's what I'm trying to do. Educate myself.
Thanks Innocent, that's kind of you to say. But I don't deserve anything.

I've been educating myself forever, and while I've come across the rare gem that strikes a chord, most leave no lasting impact. Reading suggested by my last therapist contained certain viewpoints I hadn't considered before but in practice, that's still a work in progress. Personally, I find experience to be the greatest teacher. Observation. Cause and Effect. The playing out of dynamics within certain relationships. Listening, not to what people are saying, but what it is they are trying to hide. Patterns. Roles people play, and when.

I wish you well on your own pursuit of knowledge. DM me if you want and I can point you to some books believe are well worth reading. No pressure, of course. Perhaps you've already go a firm handle on that.
 

Innocent Forever

Still innocent!
SF Supporter
#30
Thanks Innocent, that's kind of you to say. But I don't deserve anything.

I've been educating myself forever, and while I've come across the rare gem that strikes a chord, most leave no lasting impact. Reading suggested by my last therapist contained certain viewpoints I hadn't considered before but in practice, that's still a work in progress. Personally, I find experience to be the greatest teacher. Observation. Cause and Effect. The playing out of dynamics within certain relationships. Listening, not to what people are saying, but what it is they are trying to hide. Patterns. Roles people play, and when.

I wish you well on your own pursuit of knowledge. DM me if you want and I can point you to some books believe are well worth reading. No pressure, of course. Perhaps you've already go a firm handle on that.
I'd love a book list.
 

Dark111

Scholar's Mate
SF Supporter
#31
Depending on what you're looking for and what stage in life you're at can have a strong impact on which types of book(s) resonate with you. You've most likely heard of some, if not all, of these, but these are the ones that spring to mind.....

The Dragon Doesn't Live Here Anymore by Alan Cohen

The Dance of Anger by Harriet Lerner

The Road Less Travelled by M. Scott Peck

The People of the Lie by M Scott Peck.

1984 by George orwell

The Road to Wigan Pier - George Orwell

Brave New World by Aldous Huxley

The Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley

A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess

The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat by Oliver Sacks

The Wisdom Of Psychopaths by Kevin Dutton

The Tropic of capricorn by Henry Miller
 
#32
Thanks for your feedback, MisterBGone. It's interesting to hear about your own experiences.

But when it comes to me, I think you're being way too kind. My therapist was plenty smart. Smart enough to know there's not much you can do with ASPD, which is a notoriously difficult condition to treat. Some schools of thought even believe it's immune to treatment. I'm certainly not smart, I'm just stubborn combined with being dumb as rocks. I don't even understand the meaning of some pretty basic words and my ability for BS if off the charts. But it's only the dumb BS I can manage, no sophistication built into it at all. Somebody with a lobotomy could recognize it. In fact it was probably my Plebeian low IQ that frustrated her more than anything.

Thanks again, MisterBGone, hope you're keeping well.
I think you’re being a bit too hard on yourself, if I’m being honest! I’m glad she was smart, maybe in over her head, or not comfortable working with that type of diagnosis. Truth be told I’ve seen a number of people use that abbreviation & I for the life of me, could not recall what it was? (It’s not Asperger’s, right?). I studied it in school, but that was decades ago -& far from the graduate level, not the applicable kind “in the field,” as yours here did. Suffice to say —any time I change course, and sort of exit a particular field of study, or in this case - one in which it is related to (psych), I very often do my best to forget everything and all knowledge accumulated or acquired (perhaps as some kind of safety or defense mechanism for failure?). So, it is really “I,” who is the one dumber than a box of here . . . And as I said before, I think / or hope - don’t sell yourself short on the scale or realm of intellect, or intelligence!
I’m reminded of a quote that I’m sure to butcher by my favorite film maker, but it is very good, and I think, astute: “if you can talk brilliant ly enough about a subject, you can create the sobering illusion that you have mastered it...” (or something like that!)
I used to use bigger words, and put terminology together in such a way as to half fool those who didn’t know any better, or have the requisite skill set & knowledge in the particular related field of study, or topic of conversation. But that was not my intent (to sound smarter than I was), I believe I was more articulating thought s & perhaps patterns of speech set forth by others—usually professional s, in a professional setting. So I can see how some people would find me a certain way. Though I was often baffled when you’d get someone highly trained, or with impressive credentials who’d be scratching their heads at me. I once has a psychiatrist who studied at Harvard. She did her eval of me inpatient following admittance through the ER- (the very next day)... she pulled me aside & became much more, “relaxed,” & casual. And basically threw her hands up in the air, not necessarily to admit defeat. But to say that they are trained to read people, and what was not syncing up, for her - was what was right in front of her eyes (me!) -& then comparing that presentation with that was written on the page from the intake staff from earlier. I’m pretty sure I just put her mind at ease / rest & told her not to worry... as the y get things wrong about me here (not the hospital where my normal shrink is at—that one was full: either due to no beds; or no nurses. . ; )) so then after that confusion was somewhat settled & situated (I was able to convince her that this is pretty much my baseline & not that . . . ) & to trust / or go with her ‘gut,’ or intuition—whatever ~ mostly I was highly amused at how someone with her training could be so fooled by me when I was trying anything but to be deceptive! I forgot what else I was going to say - but I think I’ve said far too much (already)...
anyway, I hope you can find a good one (therapist) who can help you out, because you deserve it...
 

Dark111

Scholar's Mate
SF Supporter
#33
I think you’re being a bit too hard on yourself, if I’m being honest! I’m glad she was smart, maybe in over her head, or not comfortable working with that type of diagnosis. Truth be told I’ve seen a number of people use that abbreviation & I for the life of me, could not recall what it was? (It’s not Asperger’s, right?). I studied it in school, but that was decades ago -& far from the graduate level, not the applicable kind “in the field,” as yours here did. Suffice to say —any time I change course, and sort of exit a particular field of study, or in this case - one in which it is related to (psych), I very often do my best to forget everything and all knowledge accumulated or acquired (perhaps as some kind of safety or defense mechanism for failure?). So, it is really “I,” who is the one dumber than a box of here . . . And as I said before, I think / or hope - don’t sell yourself short on the scale or realm of intellect, or intelligence!
I’m reminded of a quote that I’m sure to butcher by my favorite film maker, but it is very good, and I think, astute: “if you can talk brilliant ly enough about a subject, you can create the sobering illusion that you have mastered it...” (or something like that!)
I used to use bigger words, and put terminology together in such a way as to half fool those who didn’t know any better, or have the requisite skill set & knowledge in the particular related field of study, or topic of conversation. But that was not my intent (to sound smarter than I was), I believe I was more articulating thought s & perhaps patterns of speech set forth by others—usually professional s, in a professional setting. So I can see how some people would find me a certain way. Though I was often baffled when you’d get someone highly trained, or with impressive credentials who’d be scratching their heads at me. I once has a psychiatrist who studied at Harvard. She did her eval of me inpatient following admittance through the ER- (the very next day)... she pulled me aside & became much more, “relaxed,” & casual. And basically threw her hands up in the air, not necessarily to admit defeat. But to say that they are trained to read people, and what was not syncing up, for her - was what was right in front of her eyes (me!) -& then comparing that presentation with that was written on the page from the intake staff from earlier. I’m pretty sure I just put her mind at ease / rest & told her not to worry... as the y get things wrong about me here (not the hospital where my normal shrink is at—that one was full: either due to no beds; or no nurses. . ; )) so then after that confusion was somewhat settled & situated (I was able to convince her that this is pretty much my baseline & not that . . . ) & to trust / or go with her ‘gut,’ or intuition—whatever ~ mostly I was highly amused at how someone with her training could be so fooled by me when I was trying anything but to be deceptive! I forgot what else I was going to say - but I think I’ve said far too much (already)...
anyway, I hope you can find a good one (therapist) who can help you out, because you deserve it...
Thanks for taking the time to reply the way you did, MisterB. That always surprises me.

I've decided I won't be doing anymore therapy. It's just a fool's errand at this stage. With whatever time I have left on this dirt ball, there's other stuff I'd rather spend my money on.

Thanks again, MisterB. Be well.
 
#35
Thanks for taking the time to reply the way you did, MisterB. That always surprises me.

I've decided I won't be doing anymore therapy. It's just a fool's errand at this stage. With whatever time I have left on this dirt ball, there's other stuff I'd rather spend my money on.

Thanks again, MisterB. Be well.
Hope you can get a good p-doc, then! :) best wishes...
 

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