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How the ‘Opioid Epidemic’ War Kills

alixer

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#1
No doubt you’ve heard about the “Opioid Epidemic” and how it’s killing people. There’s no doubt that there are people who abuse opioids, but as someone who has had chronic back pain for 13 years, there are 5 things I want you to keep in mind before you retweet the latest article about this new drug war. Why? Because the overreaction is just as dangerous as the problem. On behalf of so many people in pain, please read this. The last reason will be how this relates to CoViD.

1. If the death stats from opioid deaths seem startling, that’s because they mix in deaths from heroin with deaths from legal medication. That’s a flagrant attempt to inflate the numbers. If you ask someone about opioids, they’ll tell you what they know about prescription painkillers. No one, except those trying to inflate the numbers, would think heroin.

2. Prescription medication is already hard to get. It’s prescribed by a doctor. It doesn’t need to be harder to get. There are people in chronic pain this drug war is hurting. I don’t care what documentary you saw, unless you’re a doctor, you don’t have any business second guessing a doctor who already has to jump through regulatury hoops and redtape to prescribe medication. Not only are pain patients stigmatised but so are their doctors, all because people are looking for a new drug war to wage now that their favourite drug to bust people with, weed, is legal in so many places.

3. Not everyone gets addicted to pain medication. Just how not everyone who drinks alcohol becomes an alcoholic, not everyone who takes pain medication, even for a wide time span, gets addicted. Addiction is in the brain, not the substance. Take me, for example, I regularly undermedicate. To simply say opioids are addictive is a false statement. Not everyone gets addicted to drugs, gambling, etc. People can get addicted to pain medication, just how people can get addicted or not to other things. Stop repeating false talking points.

4. Legitimate chronic pain patients are the ones hurting the most from this. Since heroin gets lumped into the opioid epidemic mix that means that those with a pain medication prescription are automatically lumped into a group that includes criminals. Ask anyone with chronic pain and they will tell you how they are routinely treated like a criminal by doctors, pharmacists and society because of how skewed the opioid problem is presented.

5. And last but certainly not least, forcing people to rely on other non opioid medication for their chronic pain, just so you can feel better about yourself, can cause more harm than good. That’s what I learned this week. Because I routinely avoided pain medication and used OTC medication, I have developed kidney disease. I was told I shouldn’t expect to live to see retirement age because the ibuprofen I needed to make the pain bearable was much greater than the prescription pain medication I would have needed. As a result, I now have only 69% kidney function. If I had kept to prescription pain medication, I would have needed much less medication, but because I bought into the big scary “Opioid Epidemic” I fucked up my kidneys with OTC medicine. And chronic kidney disease, which I now have thanks to avoiding opioids, makes me more vulnerable to CoViD.

If this sounds like I’m directing this to you, the reader, it’s because entirely too many people have misconceptions about chronic pain and pain medication. If you, however, are one of the rare people who has done your research and spoken to chronic pain patients before formulating your opinion on the “Opioid Epidemic”, then I salute you for your independent thinking and thank you.
 
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1964dodge

Has a frog in the family
Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#2
i understand what you're saying and have made similar statements here and a thread. i think i should clarify though that there is a difference between physical dependance and psychological addiction. every person that goes on opioids long term develops a physical dependance , no exceptions. but almost all legitimate pain patients are not psycologically addicted to opioids and use them very responsibly.

the cdc already admitted that they inflated the numbers. they also stated they don't want to track the number of suicides due to people that can't get these pain meds. i get some but nowhere near what i used to get because of this bogus crises. i no longer function well because of this. i have suicidal thoughts almost every night due to pain spikes.

the cdc recently claimed that they didn't intend for pain patients to suffer. this is bullshit because the cdc and dea bullied doctors to stop prescribing. a lot of doctors and pain clinics are fighting to reverse this but it will be years before they fix it. until then more suicides. and on a side note a lot of pain patients are resorting to street drugs to survive and are dying...mike
 

alixer

We are all one
SF Supporter
#3
i understand what you're saying and have made similar statements here and a thread. i think i should clarify though that there is a difference between physical dependance and psychological addiction. every person that goes on opioids long term develops a physical dependance , no exceptions. but almost all legitimate pain patients are not psycologically addicted to opioids and use them very responsibly.

the cdc already admitted that they inflated the numbers. they also stated they don't want to track the number of suicides due to people that can't get these pain meds. i get some but nowhere near what i used to get because of this bogus crises. i no longer function well because of this. i have suicidal thoughts almost every night due to pain spikes.

the cdc recently claimed that they didn't intend for pain patients to suffer. this is bullshit because the cdc and dea bullied doctors to stop prescribing. a lot of doctors and pain clinics are fighting to reverse this but it will be years before they fix it. until then more suicides. and on a side note a lot of pain patients are resorting to street drugs to survive and are dying...mike
If you’re going to make sweeping scientific statements you need to cite research. I doubt you’re a researcher and throwing out blanket statements only proves my point that misinformed people show higher level of ignorance, and ironically, the highest level of arrogance. No, not everyone who is on opioids for a long time develops a “physical dependence”. Honestly do you realise how stupid you sound making scientific statements without evidence? A long time is merely a measurement of time. It does not account for dosage strength or frequency or biochemistry. Case in point, myself, I have taken opioids for 13 years on an as needed though constant basis and I have exhibited no addiction symptoms. And that‘s not my opinion, that’s the opinion of every therapist and psychiatrist I’ve seen. And that‘s not just my experience. You‘re doing what every misinformed blowhard is doing: vilifying opioids as if they are different from other potentially addictive chemicals because it’s, I dunno, trendy to jump on the lets make criminals of chronic pain patients wagon. Here’s a helpful hint: When you make absolute statements, you’re probably wrong.
 

tlaud

Well-Known Member
#4
If you’re going to make sweeping scientific statements you need to cite research. I doubt you’re a researcher and throwing out blanket statements only proves my point that misinformed people show higher level of ignorance, and ironically, the highest level of arrogance. No, not everyone who is on opioids for a long time develops a “physical dependence”. Honestly do you realise how stupid you sound making scientific statements without evidence? A long time is merely a measurement of time. It does not account for dosage strength or frequency or biochemistry. Case in point, myself, I have taken opioids for 13 years on an as needed though constant basis and I have exhibited no addiction symptoms. And that‘s not my opinion, that’s the opinion of every therapist and psychiatrist I’ve seen. And that‘s not just my experience. You‘re doing what every misinformed blowhard is doing: vilifying opioids as if they are different from other potentially addictive chemicals because it’s, I dunno, trendy to jump on the lets make criminals of chronic pain patients wagon. Here’s a helpful hint: When you make absolute statements, you’re probably wrong.
Interesting reply. There are some who think they know the latest research, and some who don't. There are many "poor" research studies listed in every review article, with few that show validity. I assume you have a strong background in research, but also see the aggression, not assertion, toward Mike. Face to face discussions about the health care field rarely reach that level of aggression, which indicates another side to this tale. Some lines have been crossed, and regardless whether Mike was right or wrong, he is not an aggressive SOB, and should not be mentally abused for his comments.

Mike, hang in there!
 

alixer

We are all one
SF Supporter
#5
Interesting reply. There are some who think they know the latest research, and some who don't. There are many "poor" research studies listed in every review article, with few that show validity. I assume you have a strong background in research, but also see the aggression, not assertion, toward Mike. Face to face discussions about the health care field rarely reach that level of aggression, which indicates another side to this tale. Some lines have been crossed, and regardless whether Mike was right or wrong, he is not an aggressive SOB, and should not be mentally abused for his comments.

Mike, hang in there!
Why are you calling Mike an SOB?
 

Walker

Admin-a-monkey
ADMIN
SF Social Media
SF Author
SF Supporter
#6
If you’re going to make sweeping scientific statements you need to cite research. I doubt you’re a researcher and throwing out blanket statements only proves my point that misinformed people show higher level of ignorance, and ironically, the highest level of arrogance. No, not everyone who is on opioids for a long time develops a “physical dependence”. Honestly do you realise how stupid you sound making scientific statements without evidence? A long time is merely a measurement of time. It does not account for dosage strength or frequency or biochemistry. Case in point, myself, I have taken opioids for 13 years on an as needed though constant basis and I have exhibited no addiction symptoms. And that‘s not my opinion, that’s the opinion of every therapist and psychiatrist I’ve seen. And that‘s not just my experience. You‘re doing what every misinformed blowhard is doing: vilifying opioids as if they are different from other potentially addictive chemicals because it’s, I dunno, trendy to jump on the lets make criminals of chronic pain patients wagon. Here’s a helpful hint: When you make absolute statements, you’re probably wrong.
Actually, I'd suggest you read up on this before battling back on this. He's completely right. As someone *else* who has been on opiates for a very long time time (decade plus) I understand that you think he's trying to say somehow that you're some kind of junkie but what he's saying is that people on opiates develop a physical addiction to that. If you stop taking those meds tomorrow you *are* going to withdraw from them and that's what he's saying - nothing more.
 

alixer

We are all one
SF Supporter
#7
Actually, I'd suggest you read up on this before battling back on this. He's completely right. As someone *else* who has been on opiates for a very long time time (decade plus) I understand that you think he's trying to say somehow that you're some kind of junkie but what he's saying is that people on opiates develop a physical addiction to that. If you stop taking those meds tomorrow you *are* going to withdraw from them and that's what he's saying - nothing more.
Nope. I sometimes, because of changing jobs and losing health insurance, have had to stop taking painkillers for months and have never felt any withdrawal symptoms. Yeah, I know people who have..., but there is no basis to say everyone experiences the same reactions.
 

tlaud

Well-Known Member
#8
Actually, I'd suggest you read up on this before battling back on this. He's completely right. As someone *else* who has been on opiates for a very long time time (decade plus) I understand that you think he's trying to say somehow that you're some kind of junkie but what he's saying is that people on opiates develop a physical addiction to that. If you stop taking those meds tomorrow you *are* going to withdraw from them and that's what he's saying - nothing more.
Thank you for jumping in and speaking your mind.....in an appropriate way. Sometimes aggression just needs to be pushed aside, but sometimes the bad shit comes out from bad experiences inside of us. Here again is the psychological component of medical care.

F*ck! I'd rather have back pain every day than what I have gone through. Regardless of where it comes from, I will stand up for someone who has been pissed on.
 

1964dodge

Has a frog in the family
Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#11
Interesting reply. There are some who think they know the latest research, and some who don't. There are many "poor" research studies listed in every review article, with few that show validity. I assume you have a strong background in research, but also see the aggression, not assertion, toward Mike. Face to face discussions about the health care field rarely reach that level of aggression, which indicates another side to this tale. Some lines have been crossed, and regardless whether Mike was right or wrong, he is not an aggressive SOB, and should not be mentally abused for his comments.

Mike, hang in there!
thank you
 

1964dodge

Has a frog in the family
Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#12
what i meant to say is any person using opioids on a long term basis for at least 3 months and uses them every day has a physical dependance on them. this means of course once the body is deprived of these opioids that person will go through some withdrawal symptoms mild to severe depending on med, dosage , and time on the med.

this does not mean that they are an addict. the other side of the coin is people that are psycologically addicted to the meds. they need a dose and seek it out at any cost. i have done a lot of research into opioids since the cdc strarted this mess. and i have read nothing that says people don't develop a physical dependance. if i'm wrong please post a link. i would rather learn something new instead of being a dick...mike
 

MichaelKay

Well-Known Member
#13
"Not everyone gets addicted to pain medication" ?

We can agree that opioids do make you addicted right and you suffer unpleasent withdrawal symptoms going without them after a while (and develop tolerance)? I'm not talking about slightly mild withdrawal symptoms like sweating a bit, feeling unfocused or have nausea. I'm talking about pain, cramps, a digestive system that gets clogged, paranoia, anxiety attacks, depression etc.

I've been in and out of rehab for a few years a decade ago and met people addicted to benzodiazepines, heroine, opioids etc. None of them had mild withdrawal symptoms when getting off it. It was hell for each and everyone of them. Never met a person who could just go cold turkey from something like that and have no issues whatsoever.

You do get addicted. I don't care what people say. You do get addicted no matter what. Physically and mentally. It's literally why professionals will tell you to taper it instead of going cold turkey if you want to get off it.
 

1964dodge

Has a frog in the family
Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#14
Actually, I'd suggest you read up on this before battling back on this. He's completely right. As someone *else* who has been on opiates for a very long time time (decade plus) I understand that you think he's trying to say somehow that you're some kind of junkie but what he's saying is that people on opiates develop a physical addiction to that. If you stop taking those meds tomorrow you *are* going to withdraw from them and that's what he's saying - nothing more.
thank you @Walker
 

MichaelKay

Well-Known Member
#15
(I couldn't edit my post so I'll continue here)

"Not everyone who drinks becomes an alcoholic"

If you drink every day you develop tolerance and need more to get the same effect. Again; In the end you develop addiction and going cold turkey as a seasoned alcoholic can be life-threatening. So yes, people do become addicted from drinking every single day. Being an alcoholic is as much a physical as psychological addiction.
 

1964dodge

Has a frog in the family
Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#16
My kidneys are damaged by ibuprofen too. That OTC. needs to be banned.
some otc meds are very dangerous and lead to kidney and liver issues. if taken more than directed or long term things can be serious. they need to make warnings bigger and more direct. i'm sorry this has happened to you...mike...*hug*console*shake
 

MichaelKay

Well-Known Member
#18
i've said my point of view and i respect other peoples views. i can't see continuing this convo so i'm out of here. good luck everyone...mike
Fair enough. It wasn't my intention to make a fuzz but as someone who's been in rehab and seen people addicted to these things I just got a little upset reading certain lines. That doesn't mean I'm right or gave people the benefit of doubt or understand the nuance they tried to make so for what it's worth I apologize if I came off a bit too strong and offended. My bad.
 

1964dodge

Has a frog in the family
Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#19
Fair enough. It wasn't my intention to make a fuzz but as someone who's been in rehab and seen people addicted to these things I just got a little upset reading certain lines. That doesn't mean I'm right or gave people the benefit of doubt or understand the nuance they tried to make so for what it's worth I apologize if I came off a bit too strong and offended. My bad.
no problem and i apologize for being headstrong. i've been on opioids for over 20 years and if i lost them i could not live. i just get tired of legitamate pain patients being treated like like junkies looking for a fix. they tapered me down and made me stop for 30 days and i went through some rough withdrawal. i try to seperate physical from psycological. almost all pain patients use them responsibly though...mike...*hug*shake
 

MichaelKay

Well-Known Member
#20
no problem and i apologize for being headstrong. i've been on opioids for over 20 years and if i lost them i could not live. i just get tired of legitamate pain patients being treated like like junkies looking for a fix. they tapered me down and made me stop for 30 days and i went through some rough withdrawal. i try to seperate physical from psycological. almost all pain patients use them responsibly though...mike...*hug*shake
I don't really care if people are addicted to stuff or not. If it's a net positive and makes people live a decent life I got no problems. If not getting it means a life of pain and hell, I'm definitely not clapping my hands or thinking that's great. People get addicted and so what? The problem is those that can live a good life without but have other issues and use it to manage somehow. The ones who "don't need" that addiction but have mental or social issues making it a crutch.

I'd never argue against people needing medicine to live a decent life, even if said medicine can be addictive.
 

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