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How the ‘Opioid Epidemic’ War Kills

Aurelia

🔶🔸✴ 👑 ✴🔸🔶
#41
The first one doesn't even say anything about a study that I can see.

The second one leads to an error page.

The third one isn't a credible source, just a random article.

The fourth one is credible, but according to the chart, there is but mere potential for it being effective in treating depression, schizophrenia, anxiety, and ptsd. And the only high potential is depression and schizophrenia. Ptsd has a low potential.

The last one, like you said in your post that you linked to, the study was based on only ten people. It does make sense that self administered acupuncture may be a good alternative to cutting for some people, though. But like the study says, it depends on their reasoning for the self harm, and can still be dangerous depending on how it's used.
 

Aurelia

🔶🔸✴ 👑 ✴🔸🔶
#42
Are you basing this on particular research that you can cite?
No need. It's just common sense. Opiates attach to receptors that send signals to certain parts of the brain responsible for the sensation of pain. Acupuncture may mildly increase dopamine production in the brain, which may help with pleasure perception, but it certainly doesn't block pain signals nor attach to any receptors responsible for the transmission of pain. One does not counteract the other.
 

Dark111

Scholar's Mate
SF Supporter
#44
About 10 years back I tried acupuncture and every homeopathic treatment out there for chronic back pain and man, what a bunch of over-prized sugar pills and voodoo. A few codeinated painkillers were the only effective relief. For me anyway.
 

Ash600

Of dust and shadows
SF Creative
SF Supporter
#45
Just want to put this out there which is that there is a school of thought whereby with acupuncture, the needles will stimulate the nerves underneath the skin. This causes signals to be sent to the brain which releases endorphins which of course are endogenous opiod neuropeptides. Consequently, the patient may feel euphoric, or happy, which increases the pain threshold and so feel less pain.
 

Ash600

Of dust and shadows
SF Creative
SF Supporter
#46
People come up with all kinds of ridiculous methods to treat medical conditions. But it sure as hell doesn't mean that they're valid, effective, or even ethical.
That's so true, many treatments are founded on anecdotol observations rather hardbased evidence. Even whe studies are conducted, there is always the possibility of it being skewed, sometimes so as to achieve favourable results. Other times results can be flawed due to a poor set up of the invesitgative process.
 
#47
The first one doesn't even say anything about a study that I can see.
This is a link to the press release on the National Institute of Health's website:

NIH review finds nondrug approaches effective for treatment of common pain conditions

This is the actual study that it refers to, but I'm not sure if the paper itself is online

Nahin RL, Boineau R, Khalsa PS, Stussman BJ, Weber WJ. Evidence-based evaluation of complementary health approaches for pain management in the United States. Mayo Clinic Proceedings. 2016;91(9):1292-1306.
The second one leads to an error page.
That's an NIH article on PTSD. The link was active when I posted it. I've included a variety of articles about acupuncture, but maybe it's better just to focus on the subject of back pain? If you're interested in that particular article, I could invest some time in trying to find it.
The third one isn't a credible source, just a random article.
The third one is an article in Consumer Reports, a widely respected consumer research publication.

The article states:
"Last year, a comprehensive research review published by the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality found good evidence that acupuncture helped with chronic back and neck pain and fibromyalgia..."
The article provides a link to an article published by the AHRQ, an agency of the US Department of Health and Human Services.
https://effectivehealthcare.ahrq.gov/products/nonpharma-treatment-pain/research-2018

Notably, the article says, "Exercise, multidisciplinary rehabilitation, acupuncture, CBT, and mind-body practices were most consistently associated with durable slight to moderate improvements in function and pain for specific chronic pain conditions", which tends to support your assertion @Aurelia that acupuncture alone might be inadequate to treat severe pain conditions.
 

1964dodge

Has a frog in the family
Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#48
i have no doubt that alternative methods including acupuncture works for some people that suffer minor chronic pain and may be used with opioid therapy for moderate to severe chronic pain but not all by itself. that and the fact that it is usually not covered or covered well in the states with insurance makes it not worth using. but if it's affordable i see no problem if someone wants to try it...mike...*hug*shake
 

tlaud

Well-Known Member
#49
It looks like this has become a debate. I just read some Google Scholar/PubMed research about acupuncture, and all I will say is the results are interesting.

John Hopkins Medicine states, "Acupuncture points are believed to stimulate the central nervous system. This, in turn, releases chemicals into the muscles, spinal cord, and brain. These biochemical changes may stimulate the body's natural healing abilities and promote physical and emotional well-being." Is belief or proof, the standard of care?

J Altern Complement Med
2018 Mar;24(3):200-207.
What Is the Point? The Problem with Acupuncture Research That No One Wants to Talk About
Helene M Langevin, Peter M Wayne

Abstract
Despite having made substantial progress in academic rigor over the past decades, acupuncture research has been the focus of long-standing and persistent attacks by skeptics. One recurring theme of critics is that the concept of acupuncture points has no scientific validity. Meanwhile, the subject of whether-or-not acupuncture points "exist" has been given too little attention within the acupuncture research community. In this article, we argue that failure to use clear terminology and rigorously investigate the subject of acupuncture points has hindered the growing legitimacy of acupuncture as an evidence-based therapy. We propose that a coordinated effort is needed to improve the use of terminology related to acupuncture points, combined with rigorous investigation of their "specificity" and possible biological basis.
 

tlaud

Well-Known Member
#50
Here is some info about "Referred Pain."

Initially the treatment was documented by Dr. Janet Travell, who wrote the two-volume books, "Myofascial Pain and Dysfunction: The Trigger Point Manual." The books were based on injections of trigger points, areas of contractile tissue that were "tightened up" in a protective response that did this...1) it avoided pain by shutting down the tissue that was injured, 2) it led to "referred pain" in another location which was not the source, and 3) overloads a synergistic muscle which works in concert with another muscle to generate movement. An example is, if the biceps is injured, it causes the brachialis to work harder than usual when we flex the elbow. More on this later.

1600860852827.png

One example is the number of people who see a dentist when the source of the toothache is in another location, and headaches are associated with muscle pain. They are then referred to another clinician to address the problem.

1600861785562.png

Here is my own experience of referred pain in the thumb. The injury was to the biceps brachii while slipping on ice while walking down stairs. Normal response is to grab with a hand to stop the fall. The proximal biceps tendon was injured, shut down to protect itself and heal, with higher demand placed on the brachialis (elbow flexion). Here is what the referred pain pattern is on page 661 of Travell's book, which is "exactly" what I experienced a few months later. When the therapist opened the book, she pressed on the "x" shown below, and it lit up my thumb. Stop pressing and the pain stopped. Summary: Biceps brachii shut down in response to injury, and brachialis was required (and overloaded) to do more to compensate. Tendinitis is inflammation, but torn tendons heal, with scar tissue that does not work, just fills the gap (like super glue).

1600862284426.png

One more bit of information I would like to share is that unless a trigger point, muscle spasm, scar tissue, etc. is not addressed properly, the entire muscle is shortened by the injured tissue's "locking up," to protect itself and heal. My analogy is this...attach a cable to two walls across a room, then place a broom handle across the cable in the center of the room, and start twisting to shorten the cable. Where will the problem occur? Most of the time at the attachment (the tendon), unless the muscle tissue suffered a severe injury.

So anyone who has taken a few minutes to read this post, thanks for your time. I won't keep throwing out more and more to "persuade" anyone.
 

Waves

Well-Known Member
#51
Ok to believe in treatment that works for you. I need a treatment that works for everyone. Vaccine for smallpox works. Eradicated it. Sigh. Suffering is the pits.
 

Angie

Fiber Artist
Safety & Support
SF Supporter
#52
What a slinging of information this thread is lol

Welp I had to take opiates when I broke my back. My therapist was terrified I'd become addicted. I took them as prescribed for like 6 months, then with doctor's instruction weaned myself off. Never had any withdrawal to speak of.

Thats just my personal experience, I can't speak to all this other stuff slinging around in here lol
 

Kira

•✮• 33764 •✮•
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#53
So anyone who has taken a few minutes to read this post, thanks for your time. I won't keep throwing out more and more to "persuade" anyone
I enjoyed that read so, thanks! I've suffered from referred pain in the past and finding the connection was a God send. It was a pressure point in my big toe which created crippling migraines. Once the nails were removed - once entirely and once just at the point where it was placing the pressure - the migraine was completely lifted and gone within 10 - 15 minutes.

I've suffered from severe migraines since I was about 15 yrs old (it's hereditary) so I'm not exaggerating that they were full blown migraines either. Infact my migraines were the primary reason for me becoming severely addicted to opiates for a solid 15 yrs. Luckily I got my act together and got clean (through several attempts at a detox clinic) well over 10 yrs ago now.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for bringing that up. I have quite advanced osteoarthritis in my lower back and knees which are incredibly difficult to manage without any pain killers but that's where physiotherapy elevates the pain during really bad flare ups. I also believe that there's a place for different meds and therapies for different ailments and nothing is a one size fits all for everyone.

It's a very interesting topic anyway. Clearly no one is going to "win" because we all (generally) experience pain differently and therefore require personalised methods to relieve different pain etc.
 

Kira

•✮• 33764 •✮•
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#54
I also thought I'd mention the fact that I said that I only had two severe migraines relating to the pressure point in my big toe.

The reason that I've not had this problem again for over 18 yrs is because I had surgery on both big toes to correct the growth of the nails. So before they grew "in" a curved manner but it was corrected to grow "straight" meaning that it can't ever go into those pressure points again. One of the best surgeries I've ever had!
 
#56
What a slinging of information this thread is lol
I've done a lot of "slinging of information" in this thread, because it was insinuated that acupuncture was not supported by evidence. Having provided evidence, I'm now vulnerable to being accused of slinging information. Since I can't both provide evidence and not be vulnerable to accusations of slinging information, I prefer to be accused of slinging information.
 
#57
it is usually not covered or covered well in the states with insurance makes it not worth using. but if it's affordable i see no problem if someone wants to try it
An increasing number of insurers including medicare, will pay for acupuncture for lower back pain, and possibly infertility treatments or a few others, but not all of the conditions that might benefit from acupuncture. It's true though that many insurers won't pay for it.

I think there are cases of practitioners charging $100 or more for a 1-hour treatment, which unless you're made of money, is probably not worth it. There are, however, community-style clinics where many patients are treated in the same room, and the cost is usually about $15-$25 per treatment. Teaching clinics will sometimes offer free treatments.

Acupressure self-massage may be less effective, but still help if you know the right points to work on. It's free, and you don't have to drive anywhere to get it.
 

tlaud

Well-Known Member
#58
What a slinging of information this thread is lol

Welp I had to take opiates when I broke my back. My therapist was terrified I'd become addicted. I took them as prescribed for like 6 months, then with doctor's instruction weaned myself off. Never had any withdrawal to speak of.

Thats just my personal experience, I can't speak to all this other stuff slinging around in here lol
No slinging intended, just science.
 

tlaud

Well-Known Member
#59
The first two articles in this post are directed at addressing the question of how acupuncture works.
https://www.suicideforum.com/community/threads/how-the-‘opioid-epidemic’-war-kills.166237/page-2#post-2093271

Also, imho, it's more important for patients to get treatments that have been proven to be effective than for everyone to be satisfied with the explanations for why they work.
I agree that treatments should be proven effective, but research is what demonstrates proof.....and just because "research" is published, does not mean it is "the holy grail."

Reliability and validity are concepts used to evaluate the quality of research. They indicate how well a method, technique or test measures something. Reliability is about the consistency of a measure, and validity is about the accuracy of a measure.

I have said in a previous post that psychology is a major component in treatment when it is a factor in someone's past (an example is a former patient who was in Rwanda during the genocide).

No harm intended in my lengthy post. We all want reliability and validity in current research of the coronavirus. If something "works," then good research will provide all that is needed.
 

MichaelKay

Well-Known Member
#60
Ok to believe in treatment that works for you. I need a treatment that works for everyone. Vaccine for smallpox works. Eradicated it. Sigh. Suffering is the pits.
I'm not totally sure I agree with that. People can respond differently to stuff, even vaccines (see all the debate on HPV vaccines for instance). There is no such thing as "everyone will respond the same to this vaccine or medication". The effect or potential side effects isn't set in stone and people can and do respond differently to stuff.

One of my major gripes with people who take medication is they often don't wanna spend 5 minutes reading about it first or check the list of possible side effects I assume most packages of medicine comes with (atleast that's how it is in my country so I might be wrong). It's extremely helpful to spend just a little time trying to understand the reported impacts medicine can have on our bodies. Not lest because we can be aware of potential side effects earlier and see our doctor about it.

Knowing that benzodiazepines has an alcohol-like effect on people's brains because it affects the GABA receptors (although not the exact same receptors) is useful in understanding it's effect, potential addictive properties and problems if being addicted and going cold-turkey (both things can cause life-threating seizures in rare cases for instance).
 

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