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How the ‘Opioid Epidemic’ War Kills

Aurelia

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#21
Since heroin gets lumped into the opioid epidemic mix that means that those with a pain medication prescription are automatically lumped into a group that includes criminals. Ask anyone with chronic pain and they will tell you how they are routinely treated like a criminal by doctors, pharmacists and society because of how skewed the opioid problem is presented.
No one deserves to be treated like a criminal when they are in legitimate pain, not chronic pain patients and not addicts either. Sometimes even addicts legitimately need pain medication. Actually, addicts don't deserve to be treated like criminals, period. It's a mental disorder, just like depression, that requires professional help, not a jail cell.

Secondly, there is no "war on drugs". No one is doing shit about it. There are government officials and police who are in the drug dealers' pockets, supporting the distribution of illegal drugs. No one is doing anything about it. They just like to say they are.
 

Aurelia

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#22
No, not everyone who is on opioids for a long time develops a “physical dependence”.
Um, actually, this is completely false. You say you've taken them on a consistent basis for 13 years. Even if you take them "as needed", the fact that it's been on a consistent basis is why you haven't had any withdrawal symptoms. But if you stopped taking them, believe me, you'd feel them. And I don't need scientific research to prove it because I've experienced it myself, personally. I've been on opiates/opiods for about a decade. Every time I've tried to stop, I've experienced physical withdrawal. This is the case for literally everyone. Granted, it does make a difference what dosage you take, how often, and your overall body chemistry and metabolism regarding how bad the withdrawal symptoms are going to be. But regardless, they will be there. It takes only several days to start building a physical tolerance to opiates when they are taken daily. And by the way, where is your scientific evidence to back up your statements?

And that wasn't me saying that I'm against people in pain taking opiates. Not at all. I'm just as pissed off as you are about doctors under-prescribing them to people who need them. But I'm sorry, your idea that not everyone builds a physical tolerance to them is inaccurate.
 
#23
I don't really want to get into a debate or discussion about opioids, but given that they are getting restricted, there may be some other treatment options that are worth looking into.

The US Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services announced in January 2020 that acupuncture would be covered nationally by Medicare for the treatment of chronic low back pain.
https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/press-...-chronic-low-back-pain-medicare-beneficiaries

I'm not suggesting that you're medicare eligible, but the fact that medicare is approving these treatments suggest that they can be effective for treating back pain.
 

1964dodge

Has a frog in the family
Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#24
i'm sorry @may71 but your information on alternative methods is inaccurate for the most part. most doctors try other methods and meds before they prescribe opioids. most doctors prescribe opioids as a last resort. i went through physical therapy, hydro-therapy, and massage therapy. i went on so many non-opioid and low dose opioid mixed drugs that i lost count. opioids is the only thing that works. almost all people on opioids have jumped through a lot of hoops. we have really tried not to go there. in fact i'll probably live less time being on opioids, do you think we want this? i can 100% gauruntee that i would commit suicide if i lost my opioid meds. when i had to stop for 30 days i was very close, the only thing that stopped me was my wife literally holding my hand all night reminding me how many days i had left.

these alternative methods may work for people without chronic pain or have mild pain. and i also agree that it may help with chronic pain patients but it can't replace what opioid meds do. and just to let you know i have never gotten high off of my opioids, i don't see the street appeal. also making mmj legal is a big step in lowering opioid use. i use edibles occasionally and a salve which helps to bring me down to a reasonable level. so in conclusion your alternative methods do have a place and may help long term chronic pain patients but will not replace much needed opioid meds...mike...*hug*shake
 

Ash600

Of dust and shadows
SF Creative
SF Supporter
#25
No, not everyone who is on opioids for a long time develops a “physical dependence”.
If you looked into the area of neurobiology and the changes repeated opiod use can cause, then hopefully you would revise that statement. There are differences in the level of dependance experienced, due to genetic factors, but nonetheless, neuronal changes have been found due to exposure to repeated opiod use leading to physical dependance kicking in. The mesolimbic system of the brain being central to this. Without this knowledge, then pharmacological interventions wouldn't be as effective.

I can go into further clinical detail, but I'm not going to bother as it's quite apparent that sooner or later this thread is going to turn into a bun fight.
 

Aurelia

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#26
I don't really want to get into a debate or discussion about opioids, but given that they are getting restricted, there may be some other treatment options that are worth looking into.

The US Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services announced in January 2020 that acupuncture would be covered nationally by Medicare for the treatment of chronic low back pain.
https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/press-...-chronic-low-back-pain-medicare-beneficiaries

I'm not suggesting that you're medicare eligible, but the fact that medicare is approving these treatments suggest that they can be effective for treating back pain.
Just because something is covered by medicare, doesn't mean it's necessarily going to work. And like dodge said, I think it probably depends on the level of pain the person has. With agonizing pain, alternative methods aren't going to be very useful. After I had my Crohn's surgery, and they woke me up from the anesthesia, I started screaming bloody murder because that's how much pain I was in. They had me on a morphine drip, thinking it would be enough to help with the pain. Yeah, no. Not so much. Considering I already had a tolerance to opiates (which they knew perfectly well, but still decided to put me on the morphine drip), it wasn't nearly enough to help. It did absolutely nothing. And so, because I was absolutely hysterical, they switched me to a dilaudid drip, with a button that I could push every 6 minutes to administer a dose. Now, morphine is a pretty damn strong opioid, and would probably have helped most people, if they weren't already addicted to opiates. I, however, clearly needed something much stronger than morphine. Anyway, my point is, if the pain is severe enough (such as the kind one experiences after getting a piece of their intestine removed), I agree with dodge that the only thing that's going to help is an opiate. Yes, surgery is different from lower back pain, but I imagine that the pain from either or can be extremely severe.
 

Dante

SF Supporter
#27
Prescription medication is already hard to get.
I can attest to that, it took over a year of pain for a doctor to even prescribe some weak-ass painkillers which dont work, I had been making a cocktail of over the counter painkillers to try to have some effect, so since what they prescribed was so weak, I just added it to the cocktail, and it finally works, about 50% of the time, not pain free, but manageable. (the pain is on and off and goes up and down in intensity, so most of the time I just tough it out, I only use painkillers when I find it difficult to move)

Not everyone gets addicted to pain medication. Just how not everyone who drinks alcohol becomes an alcoholic, not everyone who takes pain medication, even for a wide time span, gets addicted.
I can also back this up with experience. I had kidney stones in university, I had those fuckers for 8 months! Im still pissed off that the NHS did nothing but throw painkillers at me. 8 months of eating Dihydrocodiene like M&Ms and when I was finally rid of that stone, I put those tablets in a draw and forgot about them, there was like 40 tablets left, I found them a year or two later and got rid of them. If I didnt get addicted after 8 months of taking them several times a day almost every day then I think I can be pretty confident in saying not everyone gets addicted to opioids.
 
#28
most doctors try other methods and meds before they prescribe opioids
I never said that doctors are prescribing opioids first. I just said
given that they are getting restricted, there may be some other treatment options that are worth looking into
I was not saying that opioids are prescribed first, but rather that since the OP seems to be having trouble getting opioids, acupuncture is worth investigating if he hasn't tried it yet.
in fact i'll probably live less time being on opioids, do you think we want this?
it can't replace what opioid meds do
and just to let you know i have never gotten high off of my opioids
I never said "people who want opioids just want to get high", "people who want opioids have never tried other treatments", nor did I draw any comparisons between the relative merits of pain treatments.

I made a very bland statement recommending acupuncture to the OP, but it seems like there are things that got read into that that I really didn't say.
Just because something is covered by medicare, doesn't mean it's necessarily going to work
I wouldn't say simply because medicare is covering any treatment, it implies that all cases will be completely cured by that treatment, and that that treatment is always the best. I would say that if a treatment is covered by medicare, it implies that there has been a serious review of that treatment, and that there is evidence that is sufficiently safe, effective, and cost effective to be recommended as a treatment for the conditions it has been approved to treat.
And like dodge said, I think it probably depends on the level of pain the person has. With agonizing pain, alternative methods aren't going to be very useful
I don't think the question of whether a treatment can or cannot be effective in a particular circumstance can be answered by speculation or intuition. Nor is a treatment for pain ruled out simply because it is insufficient on its own. A lot of pain conditions are treated with a combination of methods. I by no means meant to imply that acupuncture should be the only treatment, nor necessarily the best treatment for his pain, but rather that because he's having trouble getting opioids, and there is evidence that it can treat back pain, he might want to consider it.
Anyway, my point is, if the pain is severe enough (such as the kind one experiences after getting a piece of their intestine removed), I agree with dodge that the only thing that's going to help is an opiate. Yes, surgery is different from lower back pain, but I imagine that the pain from either or can be extremely severe
I'm sorry that you went through so much pain after your surgery.

There was a reporter who went to China during the early 70's, I think it was James Reston covering Nixon's visit. He had appendicitis, and while in the hospital, he was astonished to witness that there were people being treated without anesthesia during surgical procedures, only acupuncture. Reston's reporting is what first popularized acupuncture in America.

I wouldn't go so far as to say acupuncture would be sufficient to treat every case of pain on it's own. There is reason to think that in some cases, even very severe pain can be treated effectively with acupuncture, either by itself, or in combination with other treatments.
 
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1964dodge

Has a frog in the family
Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#29
and just to clarify i do have some lower back pain but my biggest issue is uncontrolled chronic leg pain in both legs...mike
 

Waves

Well-Known Member
#30
So. How exactly does sticking tiny pins on my body numb the pain of a surgical knife cutting open my abdomen and cutting out an organ? Would I need to keep the pins in place for the next two months during post op pain? And if so, how do I move about etc with the needles in place. Thank you for your reply.
 

1964dodge

Has a frog in the family
Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#31
So. How exactly does sticking tiny pins on my body numb the pain of a surgical knife cutting open my abdomen and cutting out an organ? Would I need to keep the pins in place for the next two months during post op pain? And if so, how do I move about etc with the needles in place. Thank you for your reply.
it's probably like massage therapy it lasts a certain amount of time. i don't know how long because i hate needles lol. with massage therapy it helped for between 3 and 6 hours which was nice but not helpful in the long term...mike*hug*shake
 
#33
Hi Waves
So. How exactly does sticking tiny pins on my body numb the pain of a surgical knife cutting open my abdomen and cutting out an organ?
Here's a couple articles on the subject
  • 06/28/2014 Acupuncture Pain Killing Mystery Revealed
    [HealthCMi] Researchers have discovered that acupuncture causes a special biochemical reaction that reduces inflammation and muscle pain. The study, published in Molecular Neurobiology, investigated the effects of needling one acupuncture point on the leg. The research team measured a remarkable effect.
  • 02/05/2010 Study maps effects of acupuncture on the brain
    [Science Daily] New research about the effects of acupuncture on the brain may provide an understanding of the complex mechanisms of acupuncture and could lead to a wider acceptability of the treatment.


Here are some articles you might like to read.
  • 11/01/2013 Patient Outcomes and Experiences of an Acupuncture and Self-Care Service for Persistent Low Back Pain: A Mixed Methods Approach [BMC Complementary and Alternative Medicine] Supported self-management, acupuncture, and information can help reduce the symptoms of low back pain. These approaches are currently recommended by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence in the U.K. as treatment options for patients with persistent low back pain. However, there has been no previous evaluation of a service providing them together for this common problem. The purpose of a service evaluation project by the Beating Back Pain Service (BBPS ) was to report patient outcomes and experiences in a primary and community care setting, delivering acupuncture, self-management, and information to patients with chronic low back pain. The BBPS provided musculoskeletal pain management combining self-management with acupuncture, which was found to be highly effective by patients who completed a questionnaire about their back pain problems after such combined treatment. Further consideration of these methods is required regarding how to best engage patients in self-management.
  • 09/25/2013 Acupuncture with Counseling Improved Depression
    [International Business Times] Acupuncture and counseling improved outcomes among patients with moderate to severe depression in the United Kingdom, according to data from a randomized trial.
    Researchers from the University of York in the UK recruited patients with depression from 27 primary care practices in northern England and randomly assigned participants to acupuncture (n=302), counseling (n=302) or usual care (n=151) to determine the efficacy and cost effectiveness of various treatments. The condition is normally treated using antidepressants and counseling. Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs) are some of commonly prescribed antidepressants.
    There were statistically significant reductions in PHQ-9 assessment scores in the acupuncture and counseling groups vs. usual care at three months (–2.46 points for acupuncture, P<.001; –1.73 points for counseling, P=.008). Scores were similar during 12 months: –1.55 points in the acupuncture group and –1.5 in the counseling group. However, there was no significant difference in scores between the acupuncture and counseling groups (P=.41).
    "These findings suggest that, compared to usual care alone, both acupuncture and counseling when provided alongside usual care provided significant benefits at three months in primary care to patients with recurring depression," the researchers wrote.

  • 02/08/2013 Time for Acupuncture to Become Part of Standard Care
    [Huffington Post] A recent study conducted by researchers in the Integrative Medicine Program at the MD Anderson Cancer Center and published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology helps provide cancer patients and their oncologists the information needed to make choices about the use of acupuncture in symptoms management during cancer programs.
    Forty-one studies were found for the treatment of eight symptoms including: 11 on pain, 11 on nausea/vomiting, eight on postoperative ileus (constipation), four on xerostomia (dry mouth), seven on hot flashes, three on fatigue, five on anxiety/depression/mood disorders, and three on sleep disturbance. These studies were rated for study quality and whether outcomes were positive or negative. There is reason to believe that with larger, more rigorous studies, acupuncture may be found beneficial for some of these conditions.
  • 09/11/2012 Needling the Status Quo - Comment on "Acupuncture for Chronic Pain”
    [JAMA Internal Medicine] The relationship between conventional allopathic medical care and the world of complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) remains ambiguous. Numerous surveys document continued high levels of interest in, use of, and expenditures for CAM modalities among the US public. Clinical scientists have responded by increasingly subjecting CAM interventions to the same methodologic scrutiny that has fostered conventional medicine's remarkable progress, with the preeminent standard of the double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial.
  • 09/11/2012 Consumer-Friendly synopsis of "Acupuncture for Chronic Pain"
    [MNT] Acupuncture for the treatment of chronic pain is better than placebo acupuncture (sham acupuncture) or no acupuncture at all, researchers from the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, New York, wrote in the JAMA journal Archives of Internal Medicine. This was their conclusion after gathering and analyzing data from 29 randomized controlled human studies.
  • 09/11/2012 Acupuncture for Chronic Pain - Individual Patient Data Meta-analysis
    [JAMA Internal Medicine] Conclusions: Acupuncture is effective for the treatment of chronic pain and is therefore a reasonable referral option. Significant differences between true and sham acupuncture indicate that acupuncture is more than a placebo. However, these differences are relatively modest, suggesting that factors in addition to the specific effects of needling are important contributors to the therapeutic effects of acupuncture.
  • 09/10/2012 Acupuncture may be better than no acupuncture, sham acupuncture for chronic pain
    [Science Daily] An analysis of patient data from 29 randomized controlled trials suggests that acupuncture may be better than no acupuncture or sham acupuncture for the treatment of some chronic pain, according to a new report.
  • 09/06/2012 Effectiveness guidance document (EGD) for acupuncture research - a consensus document for conducting trials (PDF)
    [BMC Complementary and Alternative Medicine] The present EGD, based on an international consensus developed with multiple stakeholder involvement, provides the first systematic methodological guidance for future CER on acupuncture.
  • 05/11/2011 Acupuncture for Chronic Low Back Pain
    [NCCAM] In a study published in the Archives of Internal Medicine, acupuncture or simulated acupuncture treatments fared better than usual care in managing low back pain. However, neither tailoring acupuncture needle sites to the individual nor penetrating the skin appeared to be essential for receiving therapeutic benefit. These results are of importance to patients and practitioners seeking a relatively safe and effective treatment for back pain
  • 03/30/2010 Acupuncture calms highly anxious dental patients, study suggests
    [Science Daily] Acupuncture can calm highly anxious dental patients and ensure that they can be given the treatment they need, suggests a small study.
  • 07/09/2014 Acupuncture & Herbs Best Pharmaceutical For Headaches
    [HealthCMi] A new study concludes that acupuncture combined with herbal medicine is more effective than drugs for the treatment of headaches.
  • 07/03/2014 Acupuncture Restores Hand Function for Paralysis Patients
    [HealthCMi] New research proves that acupuncture combined with neuromuscular electrical stimulation (NMES) is effective for restoring hand function in hemiplegic patients.
  • 07/01/2014 Acupuncture Controls Overactive Bladder
    [HealthCMi] Researchers have discovered that acupuncture is effective for controlling overactive bladder syndrome. The research team, a combination of Whipps Cross University Hospital and University College of London Hospital investigators, document that 79% of patients in the study showed clinically significant improvements.
  • 06/26/2014 Acupuncture Improves Head Trauma Recovery - New Research
    [HealthCMi] An investigative team at the Rehabilitation Department of the First Affiliated Hospital of Xian Jiaotong University (Shaanxi) compared acupuncture combined with standard care with a control group receiving only standard medical interventions. The addition of acupuncture therapy to the conventional regime of care significantly reduced complications and improved the survival rate.
  • 06/21/2014 Acupuncture Targets Lung Cancer Chemotherapy Drug
    [HealthCMi] New research confirms that acupuncture enhances the delivery of an important chemotherapy drug for the treatment of lung cancer to the lungs while simultaneously protecting the liver and kidneys.
  • 06/20/2014 Acupuncture Heals Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
    [HealthCMi] Researchers conclude that acupuncture is effective for the treatment of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS). A remarkable finding was made in this study. Acupuncture combined with interferential current therapy increased the success rate of acupuncture. The total effective rate of acupuncture as a standalone procedure was 80.0%. Adding interferential current therapy to the regime of care increased the total effective rate to 93.3%.06/19/2014 Migraine Vanishes With Acupuncture and Tuina
    [HealthCMi] Researchers compared a Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) combination of acupuncture and tuina massage with the oral medication flunarizine hydrochloride. The TCM treatment was significantly more effective than the drug treatment for reducing pain frequency, intensity and duration due to migraines.
  • 02/25/2014 Intense acupuncture can improve muscle recovery in patients with Bell palsy, study suggests
    [Science Daily] Patients with Bell palsy who received acupuncture that achieves de qi, a type of intense stimulation, had improved facial muscle recovery, reduced disability and better quality of life, according to a randomized controlled trial.
  • 02/23/2014 Acupuncture Holds Promise for Treating Inflammatory Disease
    [Rutgers Today] Rutgers-led study suggests pathways to alleviating inflammation in disorders such as sepsis, arthritis
 
#34
Sorry, they wouldn't all fit into one post
  • 11/02/2013 Acupuncture Shows Promise to Improve Eyesight for Retinitis Pigmentosa Patients
    [HealthCMi] Treatments with acupuncture and herbal medicine for retinitis pigmentosa, a disorder that is a genetically inherited condition that may lead to blindness, have demonstrated positive clinical outcomes in several studies. A groundbreaking study was published in 2011 wherein it was discovered that acupuncture protects the optic nerve from damage caused by intraocular pressure by alleviating stresses on retinal and optic nerve axonal ultrastructures. Another study showed that Chinese medicine improved retinal cone activity for patients with retinitis pigmentosa, even in cases of advanced retinal degeneration. A more aggressive study was published in Clinical and Experimental Optometry, 2013. She Xiang was injected into acupuncture points UB18 and UB23 and results showed that acupuncture improved eyesight for patients with retinitis pigmentosa. The study concludes that injection of She Xiang into Ganshu (UB18) and Shenshu (UB23) "can improve effectively the function and metabolism of optic cells, promote blood circulation of the retina, enhance the visual acuity, and protect the central vision for the patient of retinitis pigmentosa.”
  • 10/02/2008 Calming children before surgery
    [UC Irvine] Surgery is stressful for even the calmest patient, but for children it can be particularly traumatic and frightening. For anesthesiologists, soothing anxious children about to enter surgery is a critical part of the job, and Dr. Zeev Kain, anesthesiology & perioperative care chair at UC Irvine, is turning to ancient Chinese medicine for new methods.
  • 05/31/2008 Acupuncture Reduces Pain and Dysfunction in Head and Neck Cancer Patients after Neck Dissection
    [Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center] New data from a randomized, controlled trial found that acupuncture provided significant reductions in pain, dysfunction, and dry mouth in head and neck cancer patients after neck dissection.
  • 03/08/2008 Acupuncture Shows Promise in Improving Rates of Pregnancy Following IVF
    [NCCAM] A review of seven clinical trials of acupuncture given with embryo transfer in women undergoing in vitro fertilization (IVF) suggests that acupuncture may improve rates of pregnancy. An estimated 10 to 15 percent of couples experience reproductive difficulty and seek specialist fertility treatments, such as IVF. IVF, which involves retrieving a woman's egg, fertilizing it in the laboratory, and then transferring the embryo back into the woman's womb is an expensive, lengthy, and stressful process. Identifying a complementary approach that can improve success would be welcome to patients and providers.
  • 01/09/2008 Overactive touch-sensing nerve cells explain common “ringing in the ears”
    [University of Michigan] Acupuncture and similar methods to calm nerves in head and neck could relieve tinnitus, U-M animal study suggests.
  • 01/06/2007 Acupuncture May Help Symptoms of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder
    [NCCAM] A pilot study shows that acupuncture may help people with posttraumatic stress disorder. Posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is an anxiety disorder that can develop after exposure to a terrifying event or ordeal in which grave physical harm occurred or was threatened. Traumatic events that may trigger PTSD include violent personal assaults, natural or human-caused disasters, accidents, or military combat.
  • 06/14/2006 Acupuncture Relieves Symptoms Of Fibromyalgia, Mayo Clinic Study Finds
    [Science Daily] In Mayo's trial, patients who received acupuncture to counter their fibromyalgia symptoms reported improvement in fatigue and anxiety, among other symptoms.
  • 01/10/2006 Treatment of low back pain by acupressure and physical therapy: randomised controlled trial
    [BMJ] Acupressure was effective in reducing low back pain in terms of disability, pain scores, and functional status. The benefit was sustained for six months.
  • 03/31/2005 Effects of acupuncture and stabilising exercises as adjunct to standard treatment in pregnant women with pelvic girdle pain
    [BMJ] Acupuncture and stabilising exercises constitute efficient complements to standard treatment for the management of pelvic girdle pain during pregnancy. Acupuncture was superior to stabilising exercises in this study.
  • 02/09/2005 Yale Researcher Studying Acupuncture To Reduce Back Pain In Pregnancy
    [Science Daily] A Yale researcher and expert in the practice of acupuncture is conducting a three-year study on the effectiveness of this ancient Chinese practice in reducing low back pain during pregnancy.
  • 12/20/2004 Acupuncture for Osteoarthritis of the Knee
    [NCCAM] A landmark study has shown that acupuncture provides pain relief and improves function for people with osteoarthritis of the knee and serves as an effective complement to standard care. The study, the largest Phase III clinical trial of acupuncture for knee osteoarthritis, was funded by NCCAM and the National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases, both components of the National Institutes of Health.
  • 09/22/2004 Acupuncture Reduces Nausea And Vomiting, Pain After Major Breast Surgery
    [Science Daily] In the first such clinical trial of its kind, researchers at Duke University Medical Center have found that acupuncture is more effective at reducing nausea and vomiting after major breast surgery than the leading medication.
  • 06/05/2003 Acupuncture for Fibromyalgia
    [CMS] The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) commissioned an expedited review of the literature on acupuncture for fibromyalgia from the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ). In order to expedite the review, CMS requested that the review be based on systematic reviews that are published by other groups.
  • Anti-Cancer Herbs in the Asian Pharmacopia
    This is a unique database project of the Institute of East-West Medicine. The goal is to bring together materials from traditional Asian pharmacopoeias which have potential anti-cancer activity and to provide one unified source for such information with a special emphasis on translated results of laboratory, animal or human clinical experiments already published in native Asian journals or texts otherwise not easily accessible. The intent of all this is to encourage research and discovery which may hopefully lead to new cancer treatments.
 
#36
@Waves

Chinese Medicine and Acupuncture is the world’s second largest medical system, serving more than 1.5 billion people worldwide. It is fully incorporated into the public health systems of China and Japan
https://www.uwc.ac.za/Faculties/CHS/SoNM/Pages/Chinese-Medicine-and-Acupuncture.aspx
The World Health Organization (WHO) has endorsed Traditional Chinese Medicine. The 11th revision of the WHO's International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD) will include Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) for the first time. The ICD-11 will come into effect on January 1, 2022.
https://www.integrativepractitioner...est-icd-includes-traditional-chinese-medicine

The WHO published an official report in 2003 listing 31 symptoms, conditions and diseases that have been shown in controlled trials to be treated effectively by acupuncture.
https://reliefacupuncturepa.com/world-health-organization-approved-list/

The US Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services announced in January 2020 that acupuncture would be covered nationally by Medicare for the treatment of chronic low back pain.
https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/press-...-chronic-low-back-pain-medicare-beneficiaries

A study published in the British Medical Journal found no serious adverse events occured as a result of treatment with acupuncture within the study's sample. It estimated serious adverse events to occur less than once for every 10,000 treatments, making it much safer than many conventional medical treatments.
https://www.bmj.com/content/323/7311/486
 

Aurelia

🔶🔸✴ 👑 ✴🔸🔶
#37
Im still pissed off that the NHS did nothing but throw painkillers at me. 8 months of eating Dihydrocodiene like M&Ms and when I was finally rid of that stone, I put those tablets in a draw and forgot about them, there was like 40 tablets left, I found them a year or two later and got rid of them.
You had kidney stones for eight months? Were there periods of time that you didn't have them? And if so, how long were the periods of time that you didn't have them?

Also, why did you take them if you didn't want to? Why not take ibuprofen or something instead?

You said you took them "almost every day". What's "almost every day"? Like, 5-6 times a week? 3-4 times a week? 1-2 times a week? Also, what dosage were you taking?
 

Aurelia

🔶🔸✴ 👑 ✴🔸🔶
#38
I would say that if a treatment is covered by medicare, it implies that there has been a serious review of that treatment, and that there is evidence that is sufficiently safe, effective, and cost effective to be recommended as a treatment for the conditions it has been approved to treat.
Yes, but again, I'm sure this depends on the level of pain the person is dealing with.

I don't think the question of whether a treatment can or cannot be effective in a particular circumstance can be answered by speculation or intuition.
It's not so much speculation (and certainly not merely intuition) as it is an educated guess based on personal experience. Yes, there will always be the occasional circumstance that yields a different result than expected, but generally speaking, I still stand by the fact that alternative treatment methods won't do jack shit for severe pain for most people.

Nor is a treatment for pain ruled out simply because it is insufficient on its own. A lot of pain conditions are treated with a combination of methods.
This makes much more sense. To combine alternative methods with pain medication would be a much better option than alternative methods on their own.

he was astonished to witness that there were people being treated without anesthesia during surgical procedures, only acupuncture.
I would be astonished too; that's just fucking retarded. Some time ago, some genius decided that it would be effective to treat mentally ill people with lobotomies and exorcisms. People come up with all kinds of ridiculous methods to treat medical conditions. But it sure as hell doesn't mean that they're valid, effective, or even ethical.

There is reason to think that in some cases, even very severe pain can be treated effectively with acupuncture, either by itself, or in combination with other treatments.
In combination with other treatments, I can stand by. But by itself...highly unlikely. Like I said, there could be the odd case where it does somehow work, but all in all, by itself, it's not a good way to go about the treatment of severe, chronic pain.
 

Aurelia

🔶🔸✴ 👑 ✴🔸🔶
#39
@may71 I've checked out some of those studies, and several of them don't have any kind of credible references, a couple lead to error pages, and the ones that do have references and seem legit are all Chinese studies, which makes me believe that the results may have something to do with culture and bias. Not to mention, many of these simply say that they "show promise" in treating certain things, not that they actually work.
 
#40
It's not so much speculation (and certainly not merely intuition) as it is an educated guess based on personal experience. Yes, there will always be the occasional circumstance that yields a different result than expected, but generally speaking, I still stand by the fact that alternative treatment methods won't do jack shit for severe pain for most people.
But by itself...highly unlikely. Like I said, there could be the odd case where it does somehow work, but all in all, by itself, it's not a good way to go about the treatment of severe, chronic pain.
Are you basing this on particular research that you can cite?
But it sure as hell doesn't mean that they're valid, effective, or even ethical.
Nor does it mean they are invalid, ineffective, or unethical
 

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